IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [art] On BCP 190

Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> Tue, 23 July 2019 20:28 UTC

Return-Path: <leifj@mnt.se>
X-Original-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005561209A5 for <art@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnt-se.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bdhiRo6ZqIcP for <art@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vs1-xe32.google.com (mail-vs1-xe32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6E361209D0 for <art@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-vs1-xe32.google.com with SMTP id j26so29847185vsn.10 for <art@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnt-se.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IQASaSnc6bFypn3/KP1FkzR2VWfutfLmcjc9e3VkPuI=; b=mpOfZoOx4ahDL8EyRpHIkOcmovpcbIHXiaXtMFUugoaWtIKfSIz9LiCm2J22ZWNaXD Dgfswl2/z0o7Nnb+Y1Eag0x0TUnnjad+CjJ5XU/6+IDT/LFvrPEGJNG7flKZldAtz8t+ HDh1UY0oHIsxVG4s3bBoA42jBaQmDsw2gIYzliegueSIgzFZXV4PYPlrh4GykS9+VQmM Rvd5Bs+RJYT7epZ3/fUzVyzhhNqg7CeLK2Yeu17TfC1Ny3aRAII4BiDB+d88O7hvJ+Qk 0TJO/rsR4nRRLkMwFBH03jCFe3ZuSamXRJb6vhCoqvz1izPeMN7IUpTHRoU2HfmbnOJ9 cFfg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IQASaSnc6bFypn3/KP1FkzR2VWfutfLmcjc9e3VkPuI=; b=qtCz6cOH++aBu5NfKSpUD/BGtWse6Imcsp2tWI0ybL5se7MqlRVPQmE0dFyvi30caQ YsBgos+BsGO6KQaqc9pWX95pEmes097JSTqrUGj2sl8MO13UTEFGk0QX7v3H2xB76ibE q0hDSJ8zTKVNcVXxgLV9ZlDYBNtCOEKd8oTk6gkBK8YO3ok1vuTzlulG7aoRQgoV3uYi 8wm40RjshVue8MzjzsRjMRCCnv/lBSj+To1npWXZziDe58vAhFIp6RlURinu1aMXgjpY Ly7nj60RfHiMQqU8btTNvh9P4JztUKuPVde2PcQjxvrVkQBzBWWZ8I8e2NoUwEpaWGrC XCHw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV/zrvBv+GWlOZZt5nJQyil7oDOcnkzq2LknM3gkJgtQwf8y/Xr czUpBs/+2KD2lZoBubNAQGYfP2zi
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwA8AZq0r7NsCLux34tBbBsdNW0Z4fCBvZ1RLKIK65zmjXLJBd7uEtFAVlj5ziSu1P3iBFZ4Q==
X-Received: by 2002:a67:68d4:: with SMTP id d203mr52922160vsc.28.1563913711373; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:a8ff:b295:75a9:1614? ([2001:67c:370:128:a8ff:b295:75a9:1614]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u5sm43607752uah.0.2019.07.23.13.28.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Cc: art@ietf.org
References: <58BF6171-03BB-4F83-940F-3A101EFDD67F@mnot.net> <2ba63f8c-0f61-bd59-fbca-9d782a0d9818@mnt.se> <F81E44F7-7B51-4C68-9470-E94EFD2D4102@mnot.net>
From: Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=leifj@mnt.se; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQGiBD7DfnwRBADpIpOw6bXfx2Yo3vac/j5WzVcWNZKuiYc4uuFnBYxH8zTA5cdwytuOYNte cX1yrPgmObfPVU0EFktdBMFgLE5TNRUMeJZTmAl3QYDm8N32SeSUEb6GPFsUTGgxsCW3GVAo q6DBopKqhR9HT0+crQakbc7XkS4FjeBWiXjuNf/IqwCgyoa2Qfq8UdjbcH+DRGzPnRTeqzEE ALIEsCzDp4HQqXqqNLCoExbgmCrEHvnqFmilCHJVnyuY8LXmcpq2uwJaiIdsTqLeQ8WrMxWg mZc6F9QSdLP6MVZT3v+5OqOZMUDsu4nGom3HH+tG238vMSEF+klGdrI0wdscrY+28Oshjhqj 4FZxCwdNU9RTU8xQ9IoObiEo1yOHBADK9a5GhkLT+d2cb48orETGtG7i//HOnstouw/TmEUX reZPtT6wpIdN9Jf3W80GA6A34VEGA/I+/5e+9nFvINpLvEF2ghJBH+sWwQ8EXpo0M/yir9oG eJI7gpOHRj5Mq9uqFG0wcamInuWgbMP1cefjXusHbHyDFKr7ydWSsZHqXrQdTGVpZiBKb2hh bnNzb24gPGxlaWZqQG1udC5zZT6IYAQTEQIAIAUCSnC8wwIbIwYLCQgHAwIEFQIIAwQWAgMB Ah4BAheAAAoJEPCcfBbWzGZ3x8MAnimIMTFOH4LLfp8bQnSPWm6BQyA6AKCk4S46++PpqtTM 0wIZ+kuYaBtky7kCDQQ+w36FEAgAr1zK1qIIXmoeEqFulgFi17FRpSibNwwge9bkG2+IO7MO m4Ih+f4CRkqaP5U5diiWb4nyQc/Yqzf3TTSE+CH0ghvDCwfZHrzUsVl9t57S2RFKaQhDUUw3 lz0TgKN66z1IRnQEARuz9PFd96pIhLaJBOn0e55Cu5qqJVwGpst3+I3jqT/cxjymRxPz2O6R 9k/ZOOiOGROZYAjNHKcdoeBr7OaIHcPRCi1R8MBKE4HOK1SwaVvs26Fd2enixIOBmyFTkrue 3VgaAd3zrJauD0qa/u5y2kGEyFFJwNsKnoX0aCmNNIG+aKvnSCWfba8bmYOAsbxS2lo4MKmu DM0rrVyLhwADBQf/VzM77aviZ3Ir7qXj0uV/62wyrg8/5flXl8XjuATewD+hTaux1lg5LgPU 9cokMHYHrTsnp79nhEB9qOpsQLX+npae7a27x3zyqLP0V7neyKy1ycuBI9KU9B3ivgSMRlKR 91GcmUpRnKiSnxPYNtq018mY72YYHCpfAh0OOUA88bxbYIuF5cv9dYyOBhNEkI8xB1VOWev1 CPkPb0DwDABHdOBq9e0hT3OUOaat2JPwCEHU2NTGsYFuZRysq8xnxFgHd00+h2OJZ50UYVpB jDxaCj5gvHHFFnmfCLD5VqjEJGi4k2znZHg67i2pw0f5BSq8fsfdUML35LzL/aaZPMzlg4hG BBgRAgAGBQI+w36FAAoJEPCcfBbWzGZ3djcAnAxF3084vKlsRNGcyj/rn5lA4Q+nAKCnjZYX snFG51wbu8OI88aj3LJE5w==
Message-ID: <e9780f61-681f-a5d9-7b06-549a2e652f5f@mnt.se>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:28:29 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <F81E44F7-7B51-4C68-9470-E94EFD2D4102@mnot.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/art/_VdplMVMfQmHRV9hf1K9o2MqpXQ>
Subject: Re: [art] On BCP 190
X-BeenThere: art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/art/>
List-Post: <mailto:art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:28:45 -0000


On 2019-07-23 21:54, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 23 Jul 2019, at 3:34 pm, Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>>>
>>> In short, I'm not concerned about *this* IETF specification violating the BCP, I'm concerned when there are 1,000 specs that do so (which may not be that far away, given how many specs are being built on top of HTTP). 
>>
>> Playing devils advocate: how is BCP190 then a BCP? I understand there
>> may be an argument for the B and the C but if there are really 1000s
>> of APIs that does what BCP190 say you MUST NOT, then in what sense
>> does this represent Best Current /Practice/?
> 
> There aren't; I was speaking about the future.


Ah so the BCP designation is aspirational? I personally think thats a
problematic use of BCPs

	Cheers Leif

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email