Re: [Diversity] Behaviors vs. Demographics (was - Re: IETF Diversity Update)

[Kathleen Moriarty <[e-mail]>]

Hi Dave,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Dave Crocker <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/14/2015 4:11 AM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>> I don't think his would be appropriate and think many would abstain from reporting anything to an ombudsman if it were going to be publicly reported, even sanitized.  It is to easy for some to reconstruct the full scenario, eliminating the privacy aspect all parties should be able to assume in such a process.
>> 
>> When he assumed I would be aware since I'm on the IESG, that is simply not the case as the IESG isn't even informed as that would break the expected confidentiality.
> 
> 
> Kathleen,
> 
> I said nothing that suggested any such assumption.

You mentioned 3 times you were aware of the ombudsman not working well.  I'm not briefed on these things.

> 
> You, however, are making assumptions about the ability to report Ombud
> behavior and you are ignoring the rather serious problem caused by it's
> poor track record.

I don't have access to this record.

> 
> The two RFCs concern abuse and harassment and your blog post, your news
> article quotations, and your postings here all talk about attendance.

I was asked specific questions about diversity as the former co-chair of the diversity design team and answered those questions appropriately.  You are making assumptions that my responses should be on your draft, rather than a summary of efforts I was a part of and helped chair.  A report was long overdue.  Most on this list are also concerned with diversity and how to improve it.

If you have suggestions from your work that are constructive and helpful, that could be a very good thing to move the needle forward.


> 
> In other words, you have sought to move attention away from behaviors to
> demographics.

No, I responded to questions asked and wrote a blog from my own work.  
> 
> In that effort, you have rather casually dismissed concerns about
> behaviors.

That's not true, although I do think they are better and noted that in what I wrote in that it's much easier to call out bad behaviors and have everyone move on from it.  I also noted in response to you examples from my own efforts and that my WGs generally have good conduct.

> 
> That matches how IETF management responds to problematic behavior.

I see this as a generalization that's unnecessary.  I'm not sure why you are reading my responses the way you are, that they should only be in context to your work.
> 
> Demographics is a much more pleasant topic than abuse.

It's somewhat related to create an inclusive environment.  If you could contribute lessons learned and next steps for improvement rather than just staying on the problem side, perhaps we could make even more progress. 

Thank you,
Kathleen 
> 
> d/
> -- 
> Dave Crocker
> Brandenburg InternetWorking
> bbiw.net