Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment]
Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com> Wed, 04 August 2010 14:31 UTC
Return-Path: <mcmanus@ducksong.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7464B3A68FA for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.413
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.413 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.186, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sX-NlxeFMamc for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:31:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from linode.ducksong.com (linode.ducksong.com [64.22.125.164]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAFC3A6B7E for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by linode.ducksong.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4214A102A9; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:31:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [192.168.16.214] (cpe-67-253-92-25.maine.res.rr.com [67.253.92.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by linode.ducksong.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD307102A7 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:31:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>
To: hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1008040050040.5947@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>
References: <AANLkTinyrDoG5d_Ur6HVRy=SgMPjLzJtpJ++Ye=1DQdj@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1008040050040.5947@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:33:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1280932393.7561.271.camel@tng>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment]
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:31:51 -0000
On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 00:53 +0000, Ian Hickson wrote: > I could see an argument for supporting > fragmentation in the case of multiplexing, but without that it doesn't > seem to actually gain us anything. In the absence of fragmentation the sender must have the entire message available in order to prefix the total length in the header - so it engages in store and forward instead of streaming behavior. Benefits of streaming: * Reduced memory consumption on the sender in cases where the message is being "passed through". A service that does a large database query is a good example here - the results can be passed back as they are found even before you know how many there are. * overall transfer time is reduced when the data to be sent takes time to generate. Again, consider the DB query example. the transfer time for the initial records is overlapped with the "think time" of the whole transaction. Instead of the total send time being "processing + bulk transfer" it is max (processing + network latency, bulk transfer) * the receiver can overlap decompression with the receipt of streamed chunks instead of adding decompression as a store-and-forward step onto the end. (because without chunking the server cannot begin to send the document until the whole thing is spooled). This will improve effective message transfer time up to the JS layer. * better latency properties to the recving ws stack. Other APIs than the anticipated JS one may make use of that at no cost to the JS one. And of course, as you say, fragmentation allows multiplexing and effective prioritization of flows by the sender.
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Thomson, Martin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Thomson, Martin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Roberto Peon
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Thomson, Martin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Mike Belshe
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Douglas Otis
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Ian Hickson
- [hybi] Good arguments (was: Framing take IV) S Moonesamy
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Dave Cridland
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Jack Moffitt
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Dave Cridland
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Dave Cridland
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Yves Lafon
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Roberto Peon
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Dave Cridland
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV [why fragment] Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] Framing take IV Thomson, Martin