Re: [I18ndir] [art] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-bray-unichars-06.txt

Asmus Freytag <asmusf@ix.netcom.com> Tue, 26 September 2023 05:53 UTC

Return-Path: <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>
X-Original-To: i18ndir@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: i18ndir@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77894C151983; Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.989
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.091, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=earthlink.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g9M6LHFg56Jq; Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mta-101a.earthlink-vadesecure.net (mta-101b.earthlink-vadesecure.net [51.81.61.61]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4164C15171F; Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; bh=+AuJunbaEwDG4PRp8POnxXOc4eOzTM3xmwq+oD S275s=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1695707624; x=1696312424; b=KYitBv2tu/tnMLAYksoilYGKCqkNT6/iviMEqftozEj2YmmMWnNnec7 ElPksYcGsqVSEUsQ9Sadmo5nLI87+IEZTzYVqo5xpa0bdDlxwRu+NF5lyB8j9Zy4tc7FNT6 DD9ybDt/rMtP2CDOCoQcJGIlDr7T303hF7EFyEJ2Rp37RqlTJ7s1nwR0jQirL4noc6Q7TBP b4mueQ/350YIpjqWigJw8ha6GXn+tW4tZotYadWHOaEZBPlDVgKGwznmxeeIphiud0rvgm+ aJ+GXRb3naDObUbvgEu7LGhXqLY2K+8bt0C26FKU0Hxz/s3a4aGM1hn4zKuhYvrR0GXYgbQ mpA==
Received: from [10.71.219.206] ([138.199.43.86]) by vsel1nmtao01p.internal.vadesecure.com with ngmta id 2c18f7fe-17885d1983affa4d; Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:53:44 +0000
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------GvdmHZjGJkJt0XSw7ChvTZp0"
Message-ID: <8c520016-391f-62ad-49c1-09f942e195db@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:53:44 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: i18ndir@ietf.org, ART Area <art@ietf.org>
References: <169566019635.41806.9804796677919971070@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAHBU6is-wU2NLXNWL56nSJ4=nKvDzGv_Aw4qJN6N2O8CuM4-yw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SwM9re+0X8V9YkFLxkuxhSnu0chW9ecKq1JuNuo4fAEWw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHBU6ivSkEv0AcT52BWrYadmutdYNFx0D0MYR3Sv62a2LXckJw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SyuLc6-fLsThQJie2G_K4-vZtPK_emnFyA7NWoakBowiA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHBU6is1c8onz4CWsh=7vTNP_s4=0sCC2Q4jFrrb50JVOqxRTA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Asmus Freytag <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHBU6is1c8onz4CWsh=7vTNP_s4=0sCC2Q4jFrrb50JVOqxRTA@mail.gmail.com>
Authentication-Results: earthlink-vadesecure.net; auth=pass smtp.auth=asmusf@ix.netcom.com smtp.mailfrom=asmusf@ix.netcom.com;
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i18ndir/13w9RyUZXtVXH7_1EqkiOzsBHHE>
Subject: Re: [I18ndir] [art] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-bray-unichars-06.txt
X-BeenThere: i18ndir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internationalization Directorate <i18ndir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/i18ndir>, <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/i18ndir/>
List-Post: <mailto:i18ndir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18ndir>, <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:53:47 -0000

I think I'm with Tim here. Once you are in scope of a document that only 
describes subsets of the code points, this kind of explanation (at best) 
belongs in the section where the scope of the document is defined.

I would argue that at the end of 1. Introduction would be a good place 
to mention what this document does *not* address.

"This document does not address protocols where every single Unicode 
code point must be supported for specific reasons, or protocols and data 
formats that need to further subset the valid code points based on 
criteria different from the ones presented here."

I realize, this language doesn't give much detail, but the important 
point is that makes explicit that omission of other types of subsets is 
deliberate, and that you do need to look elsewhere in some cases.

In a way, just adding that explicitly also prevents abuse of the 
document by people making false claims that it is intended to prevent 
you from dealing with the full set or restricted sets, should you have 
reasonable requirements.

A./

On 9/25/2023 9:20 PM, Tim Bray wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2023 at 6:59:26 PM, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The aim here is to point out that the Web (and Java, and Windows) can 
>> accommodate ill-formed Unicode. Is it possible to transmit any 
>> Windows path name via conforming JSON in UTF-8? Yes. Is it a good 
>> idea to naively design that into a protocol? No. But you might have 
>> to accept these things to be sufficiently compatible with the Web.
>
> If you want that behavior I guess you should just accept a repertoire 
> of code points as JSON does, no?  In which case nothing in this 
> document is relevant.