Suggestion: can we test DEMARC deployment with a mailing list?

["Fred Baker (fred)" <[e-mail]>]

We have been having a fairly extended discussion, much of which seems hypothetical - “I don’t like DEMARC because I am worried that ... with mailing lists”. I wonder if we could take a moment to try it and see what happens?

As an example of the case that comes to mind, see attached. It is a message sent to [e-mail] yesterday. The sender signed it using DKIM, the IETF changed the message (added some trailing text) before forwarding it, the receiver (e.g., Cisco IT) attempted to validate the DKIM signature - and failed.

It seems to me that we should not approve a procedure that has that effect, at least without some guidance for mail relay administrators. I could imagine two forms of guidance: “obey the end-to-end principle; don’t change the message the originator sent”, or “if you change a signed message, first validate the message you received and discard if that fails, change it, and then sign it yourself, so that a receiver can see who changed it and validate the outcome”.

Could we actually try such guidance in a sandbox, and document appropriate procedures for mailing lists?

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> fec0::/10 was reserved way back in rfc 1884
> 
> 3879 and 4193 are contemporaneous activities. meany people on this list
> were present for them.
> 
> The fact that we did a bad job at something 20 years ago doesn't mean
> the problem that we were attempting to address went away.

I agree… People wanting to do NAT rather than learn how to do things better without it is an education problem which continues to persist to this day.

Owen

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