Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC.
Ted Lemon <ted.lemon@nominum.com> Thu, 12 June 2014 15:18 UTC
Return-Path: <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D78E1B2A70 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.551
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udlqEU7uwPHM for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shell-too.nominum.com (shell-too.nominum.com [64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9E131B2A83 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10A81B8035 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA06E190064; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.10.40] (174.62.147.182) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:18:26 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\))
Subject: Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC.
From: Ted Lemon <ted.lemon@nominum.com>
In-Reply-To: <9DAFD7B8DAA49A1629E4CC7E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:18:24 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID: <C2850EE4-00FB-451E-A829-00B562B108E2@nominum.com>
References: <CAMm+LwjsgmMQu+emxcHnun_XGnzTYn23pv6rSVL3EKUWNHD7mA@mail.gmail.com> <20140611170004.5D75E1AD4D@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp> <CAMm+Lwi2Bc3Cv=tyU+aJUteSK7zopxju=ZcSCu4NrMkJzgbMoA@mail.gmail.com> <5399B704.5090007@dcrocker.net> <9DAFD7B8DAA49A1629E4CC7E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2)
X-Originating-IP: [174.62.147.182]
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/7BC8O2r-th8JDpZvUdVNudxknRo
Cc: dcrocker@bbiw.net, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:18:28 -0000
On Jun 12, 2014, at 10:50 AM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > IMO, it ought to be incumbent > on anyone proposing a different "get notification, then retrieve > mail from server" model explain why their ideas will be more > successful than that 20-odd-year-old MIME mechanism. Implementing this 20-year-old MIME mechanism would be very difficult, would have limited potential payoff, and would be pretty obviously privacy-violating. And in order for it to do any good, recipients would have to refuse large attachments. So there really isn't a viable transition path from what we have now to this, and if we had this, it would make things a lot worse in some respects, and make things better in almost no respect. This functionality is very similar to the behavior of modern MUAs that will fetch images in email messages given the URL, which is in ubiquitous use as a way of bugging mail recipients to see if they actually read the message. I disable it in my MUA. Point being, the fact that this technology hasn't taken off is no indication of a lack of demand for the technology PHB was describing.
- Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Martin Rex
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Dave Crocker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. John C Klensin
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Ted Lemon
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Ted Lemon
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Miles Fidelman
- Webmail is implementation, not Internet architect… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Tony Finch
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Ted Lemon
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Tony Finch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Stephen J. Turnbull
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Joe Abley
- Re: Change the mailing list protocol, not DMARC. John C Klensin
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Miles Fidelman
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… ned+ietf
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Dave Crocker
- email client popularity [was Webmail is implement… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… ned+ietf
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Change the mailing list protocol… Brandon Long
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Eric Burger
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… ned+ietf
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Stephen Casner
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… John C Klensin
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Ted Lemon
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Tony Finch
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Ted Lemon
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… John C Klensin
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Scott Brim
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Hector Santos
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… John C Klensin
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Hector Santos
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Miles Fidelman
- Re: email client popularity [was Webmail is imple… Hector Santos
- Re: Webmail is implementation, not Internet archi… Mark Rousell