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Re: Diversity and offensive terminology in RFCs

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Thu, 20 September 2018 23:44 UTC

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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 01:44:51 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Evan Hunt <each@isc.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Diversity and offensive terminology in RFCs
Message-ID: <20180920234451.l3kirvilfpb5pvsh@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <20180920132601.uwv2lblcvr4ojtk5@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CAHbuEH7jeGLBMH8Yi+_o+o-NvZKmWt4KbtwbP-8XtL0taUCx_Q@mail.gmail.com> <20180920143103.lvg6rmkzqfyjq3fr@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <52399791-9285-bcab-4fcd-3eb0f0a1f64f@gmail.com> <20180920151907.5wxxlccrvcgzjzcz@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <0FE3D4B6-CDDC-40A5-AC84-9C9E24278919@vpnc.org> <20180920171706.vemkprtgq2potrkr@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180920185721.GD68853@isc.org> <20180920201136.dtdw3dcjw663byu4@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <B40D702B-CD2D-42F0-91D5-D7B2776C2A2F@fugue.com>
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Ted,

Your attempt at trying to characterize problematic words with
"hurtfull" is useful. Asking for the discussion to be limited
to people personally affected is not so useful. And trust me,
its not fun to question the effectiveness and efficiency of
well meaning initiatives. 

I brought up "fat" as a well known example of abuse in hostile
work environments that i assume most on this thread could
easier relate to than slavery (fat shaming). Makes it IMHO
easier to imagine how language management can not really
help directly with hostile work environments.

I really don't think that pythons change can help with any
hostile work environments either. The best benefit i can think of
is relief for the poor teacher in school/college of an affected
country who really does not need a discussion about slavery when
teaching a 101 computer course in python. Nor the support for
playfull passive-aggressive behavior when students start
programming with a a derogatory-rich vocabulary.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 05:39:58PM -0400, Ted Lemon wrote:
> On Sep 20, 2018, at 4:11 PM, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> > Do i qualify to demand a rename of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_tree <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_tree>
> > if i have an appropriate BMI and feel offended or do i have to work in
> > a Data Center ?
> 
> Toerless, let me put it to you this way: are you having a problem at work that is sufficient that you feel that you would like to report it to your human resources/personnel department as harassment, but you don't feel safe in doing so?   If so, and if what you are experiencing is being enabled by some terminology used in the IETF, then what you are saying would apply.   Otherwise you are just wasting our time asking this question.   This is not a Kaffee Klatsch, and we are not talking about this for fun.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_work_environment <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_work_environment>
> 

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de

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