Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessions
jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <jmabdp@gmail.com> Fri, 14 January 2011 13:36 UTC
Return-Path: <jmabdp@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557B83A6B7F; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:36:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.675
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.917, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_63=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24, SARE_OBFUMONEY2=1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tu9W8gmj24QK; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D19A3A6B26; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: by iwn40 with SMTP id 40so2702352iwn.31 for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:39:16 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qJSpY5sEiUZ6X5oI0hjhkHiZGXKjXghfCoGLdzJF85k=; b=XWf5OiSceGy0ME8mCDG8vMvkmgI6fTST9oTysFL6EUwA/c1mA55Y9GD6bDQ5pmAIOr VfiGAYmDV0InajE5ZqAwTgKzZ6x3ZWCTS0PQ4GAIKXsq85OoDM4hXKyaVckGIfE2cJD8 2e2w8fk2blPqB1s3z4AbVbcKHYvL4Nu29//b8=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=f+SCl6HHAMH5Jd/2Sno5pztvnRu9JkZStVIxIGGQCDiZbc/EgDhrwDRo6MSKTrNky5 G9MyTBcnHqsBgxaiYDub+1Elk+vIm0RqJUVASlEW/7LCVTRtn9jAeEz4gS0XKrSVqfxH hGTnWcY9gDrnRzidWCibzUgV0eZclP2BYc6GA=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.231.37.12 with SMTP id v12mr690162ibd.83.1295012356674; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.231.129.2 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:39:16 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <C594029A-75E7-4EC7-9260-5E4484B3A353@NLnetLabs.nl>
References: <4D258AB3.9010903@tana.it> <CD5674C3CD99574EBA7432465FC13C1B2202288B51@DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com> <tslipy2ndm6.fsf@mit.edu> <CD5674C3CD99574EBA7432465FC13C1B2202288B59@DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com> <4D26940F.3020404@gmail.com> <AANLkTi=5X=L5C1NJPBRPcwsvWBDfsUA=jhqVTf2RuTr6@mail.gmail.com> <ED6A886C-2FBC-4312-9066-18108363249C@nokia.com> <E0444BE9-83B6-42F9-8B6B-D514F7C1A28D@checkpoint.com> <4D2AE8EC.2060202@ripe.net> <4D2AEC03.8040205@pi.nu> <094C6685-62A8-435C-8467-A77A34A14963@americafree.tv> <17D4AE0F-AB65-4F28-8F99-4105959386CD@cisco.com> <4D2C3DF5.8020204@tana.it> <DBDB1DDE-3512-4B35-81C2-70B877D17F9D@standardstrack.com> <14C85D6CCBE92743AF33663BF5D24EBA08D06800@gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com> <006701cbb1be$73207280$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <8C373906B2FB9C011E59FE7F@PST.JCK.COM> <4D3007FB.102@tana.it> <C594029A-75E7-4EC7-9260-5E4484B3A353@NLnetLabs.nl>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:39:16 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTinrH0kaDxS8_JLvNxMSexZaOP1B83HbEb5ViPH1@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessions
From: jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <jmabdp@gmail.com>
To: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@nlnetlabs.nl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0022152d60257fd4160499ce8f7a"
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, iucg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:36:53 -0000
2011/1/14 Olaf Kolkman <olaf@nlnetlabs.nl> > > On Jan 14, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > > > On 11/Jan/11 20:32, John C Klensin wrote: > >> --On Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:35 -0800 Randy Presuhn > >> <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> > >>>> At issue though is that these individuals get paid > >>>> (sponsored) by someone, either directly or indirectly by > >>>> corporations and/or governments. > >>> > >>> Not necessarily. Some of us have no employer and just do this > >>> stuff for the fun of it. > >> > >> Indeed. Although I'm increasingly taking exception to the "fun" > >> part. > > > > If you remove fun, what else remains that can be used as a compass to > > take a bearing in iffy circumstances? > > For some of us: A feeling of responsibility in shaping the future of the > Internet that is beyond direct corporate interest and next year's line > items. > +1 Portzamparc Jean-Michel, This what lead us to identify three areas of not yet cloned people's responsibility: - the operance for the short term operational issues that are mostly addressed by agreements and contracts and are related to machines. - the governance for mid-term relational issues that are mostly addressed by international rules and national laws and are related to people. - the adminance for the long-term architectural orientations that operance and governance may trust, that make the Internet (hence in part the world) constitution (as per L. Lessig) and that are related to humanity. We feel that up to now operance managers/corporates and governance politicians/governments have left the adminance to IAB and IRTF, applied by the IETF, forgetting that they shape the possible futures of people,and leaving an under influence "market" to "decide". The claim of the young emerging IUse (Intelligent Internet and IETF Users) community is to be an active part of the Internet adminance. Moreover this is an urgent issue as the technology (cf. the IDNA2008 example) has reached the fringes of possible semantic facilitation services, i.e. the possibility of social meaning engineering. If "fun" and "monney" are the only IETF motivations, there is some urgency to work on new meanings production. The IUse value added meaning is to permit everyone to technically empower him/herself, to do what he/she likes in life better, for the good of networked others. Because we beleive that such a distributed and intricated network of diverse meaning and purpose in life is the only solution we (the people) will be left with "the day after the google-stream stops". Also, I fear this very interesting thread forgets two important aspects we IUsers try to deal with: - we also are engineers and developers who can engineer and document. But we are not dedicated to the sole global internet, being first interested in our internets (possibly through different technologies, and for our own business). These internets do not have the budget to pay for an IETF time, we cannot wait for years, and most of all why would this be under ISOC Copyright? We need many things we can think off to be used elsewhere and therefore to be public domain. - in uncoupling the Internet functions from the Internet Use Interface possibilities, IDNA2008 has open an entire new engineering area, outside/on top of the IETF scope. We are interested in "fringe to fringe" smart services (extended services) and to directly support semantic facilitation you could dub as "brain to brain". For that we need the IETF underlaying Internet we use to work well, and its engineers to seriously want to understand what we need and why and to help us with it. jfc
- Poster sessions Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Poster sessions Yoav Nir
- Re: Poster sessions Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Poster sessions Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Poster sessions Ed Juskevicius
- Re: Poster sessions David Morris
- RE: Poster sessions Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: Poster sessions Sam Hartman
- Re: Poster sessions Salvatore Loreto
- Re: Poster sessions J.D. Falk
- RE: Poster sessions Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: Poster sessions Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Poster sessions R. B.
- Fwd: Poster sessions rajesh rajesh
- Re: Poster sessions Lars Eggert
- Re: Poster sessions Yoav Nir
- Re: Poster sessions Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: Poster sessions Loa Andersson
- Re: Poster sessions Yoav Nir
- Re: Poster sessions Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Poster sessions Yoav Nir
- Re: Poster sessions Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Poster sessions Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Poster sessions Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Poster sessions Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: Poster sessions Hannes Tschofenig
- RE: Poster sessions Christian Huitema
- Re: Poster sessions J.D. Falk
- Re: Poster sessions Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Poster sessions Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Poster sessions Fred Baker
- Re: Poster sessions John C Klensin
- Re: Poster sessions Yoav Nir
- Re: Poster sessions Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Poster sessions John C Klensin
- SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessions Alessandro Vesely
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… Eric Burger
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… Ted Ts'o
- RE: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI)
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… Randy Presuhn
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… John C Klensin
- Re: Poster sessions Michael StJohns
- Re: Poster sessions J.D. Falk
- Re: Poster sessions Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: Poster sessions Olaf Kolkman
- Re: Poster sessions Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: SDO vs academic conference, was poster sessio… jean-michel bernier de portzamparc