Re: [Ila] [5gangip] ILA forwaring [Was Re: Problem Statement]

Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> Thu, 10 May 2018 14:24 UTC

Return-Path: <tom@herbertland.com>
X-Original-To: ila@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ila@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D1512EADE for <ila@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.609
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.609 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ob7Ugm7AKUBo for <ila@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x232.google.com (mail-qk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC3412EAC4 for <ila@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 11-v6so1686880qkk.4 for <ila@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x9lBQcVRKzCDqIzQyrER4XeICeS74mAyb+DIzLIJKE0=; b=1ssQT0rdjl1rflGuFM2POaP9p27L2E375xGTimJHbE5PLqy5v/V7oP/Jodjqk0qz5T yYIqY4MsYw7AL7ai3rYYPft1AIE5rX5A93oY72spUtnsvxmGZwGuzEzvRo2V3q4MRNxp /iNeHAbbUgt58n6UrBG6VbQYp+JB8aCh+5aIPqKMpjEk0TCnjunQ2Sk4Z8hEZAZ5g12I Z+x03ISEGTeK5kEOFQkuzUsh4r7pmAx399fyTowY2R29I/B5CsPoMtx4Fh3H5gdB+89X fQyz6/3/g7nUPbU56b8I1MSN6oUreVl1uGpCE88DBE85H8Q1tA+LP8bR77dVQ/tUn0DZ c15A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x9lBQcVRKzCDqIzQyrER4XeICeS74mAyb+DIzLIJKE0=; b=EDOJmLoYY+Le4ueMHm1dVxRwO4iXbxXENSQpl7WxcLhsgbdT1+HSew653ItOg9CdV1 +HGtqNCc+3tqwQUwk7N47CIGJt661FwvZAcac7bWBpBkujn0CO2j6l1+nwWG38M5mmMJ jH81Ter93Nm2H/r4odfZ+tZ8+BfW3ku9wWBiHv3owlz5hMlEl8AABxuByPdVmdq34tUq l/9U32oL3IIc2jwhygKlN2IT3SEayWfg8/3PXTg0O2kBkcHakrDA3e1PYVIXyNoxLYC4 WnJwkG5oIwyh6+zu3pCItFTwsXScUv/XB0UOvmBO/ulRaJOqmGUXP5I4a43flA52SOTA oP3w==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwdyUg6FMTHeiW1RDGI5RiKbdKU/+/Si2//uz19YHs4xbvzVJ6Ho E+ZDyAqBfG9dVggAZ+Apr2LuIcQB+nsSiJ2bkdFrPA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZqqr3KnEmkaqzssKRfuBZCJZPT2hkO6bCcFaJ6qhi1tQxANKWwpTVVOzDl3CVJwmHAyKetmShlU6PZLWGXBPQo=
X-Received: by 2002:a37:a64c:: with SMTP id p73-v6mr1425846qke.248.1525962258968; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.237.48.66 with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr0Qaoi=0QeiAcUdNEBpLweDeR6sUSGWeNxHCtcwwiDdQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALx6S37_oce-S0pEUgB8CpkWemcHhrb4HoDXUfPHZMGiokCqcA@mail.gmail.com> <253963a3-9e0b-2cb9-e216-745c6b99766c@joelhalpern.com> <CAPDqMeqsdG5FKtMaq9bjcJYDMw69Ow=OkeqMdba8aqRh9ayPrQ@mail.gmail.com> <08110014-adce-3f88-02d1-643871e46dcb@joelhalpern.com> <CALx6S34=Yeu3-hHTiVCOoQUM7KwvXPpGMmu8Ss-ZHeuOU6b7ug@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YHcKF3z+LoVE=18HMgTNTpCN+23dDjkDx8bhZzWPdTeiX-_Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAPDqMeqcy-9+_Dk0yp=j7icQkDTvYnkYiwAbvRCq3oJ7UPciQA@mail.gmail.com> <fdaafdea-7d59-2542-3bef-ae86e96782dd@joelhalpern.com> <CAPDqMeo+wgHGxn_eiH1c100W_0kN_3cFyfZMRPn5Be42d9F8Cw@mail.gmail.com> <8aee42db5f0f407c86fda881769ceb77@HE105715.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <CAPDqMeqgrOmoTstvJXnKCvG+WogQun_WvQGRg-V3Jm6OrnbFYw@mail.gmail.com> <1AFE10CF28AE8B4C9663445736B8034D3822FAFE@CAFRFD1MSGUSRJI.ITServices.sbc.com> <CAPDqMerK9ZUWGnj7EWtvZr0bb6J+4ketpK-QxKEytonQL8FNzA@mail.gmail.com> <0cbb9987-0b47-9428-3db7-2c9fab821268@joelhalpern.com> <CAPDqMepRwxtdLpf17NLLeR72sTvXhz=3RMdtn7ru-4gC=iFjXA@mail.gmail.com> <1AFE10CF28AE8B4C9663445736B8034D3822FC27@CAFRFD1MSGUSRJI.ITServices.sbc.com> <CAKD1Yr08UuXMNnCfng_Byb3ZLCCCT5Vn8YAM0a4gcekafavTew@mail.gmail.com> <CAPDqMer1bkEPVbHozmooXdm5r6Pkwpwp00TAesMWeU4nUF6p6g@mail.gmail.com> <55875A79-0D4A-48EF-BCA9-A7462EBE3A38@att.com> <CAKD1Yr0Qaoi=0QeiAcUdNEBpLweDeR6sUSGWeNxHCtcwwiDdQw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 07:24:18 -0700
Message-ID: <CALx6S36=LFvrvtCZB2Mg-6OEG+hWAJDzoqqAj=xjAun2MTxDtg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Cc: "FIGURELLE, TERRY F" <tf2934@att.com>, Tom Herbert <tom@quantonium.net>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "ila@ietf.org" <ila@ietf.org>, 5GANGIP <5gangip@ietf.org>, Alberto Rodriguez-Natal <rodrigueznatal@gmail.com>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ila/vVU4M2zJk3e1RPjsC4IdI0FqqEg>
Subject: Re: [Ila] [5gangip] ILA forwaring [Was Re: Problem Statement]
X-BeenThere: ila@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Identifier Locator Addressing <ila.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ila>, <mailto:ila-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ila/>
List-Post: <mailto:ila@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ila-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ila>, <mailto:ila-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 14:24:21 -0000

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 1:51 AM, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:48 AM, FIGURELLE, TERRY F <tf2934@att.com> wrote:
>>
>> We all support methods so traffic flows like video chat can work but key
>> is we all work directly with those ASP’s (Application service providers).
>> All of us have special handling of traffic to Amazon, Apple, Google and so
>> on. The difference is in the functionality, scale and number of ASP’s
>> support where we smoke everyone!
>
>
> Actually this is not a good thing at all. It means that any new video
> service doesn't work on your network until you support it. This is pretty
> much the definition of ossification of the Internet. It's also the reason
> why the QUIC working group is doing its best to ensure that the protocol
> provides zero cleartext information to the network, so the network cannot
> make decisions like this.

+1

I'd also point out that "All of us have special handling of traffic to
Amazon, Apple, Google and so
on" is the antithesis of net neutrality. IMO, it's reasonable to
discriminate types (video, bulk transfer, real time chat, etc.) of
traffic without discriminating based on the source of the traffic or
the transport protocol. This is what IP layer network signalling, like
in FAST as I mentioned, endeavours to do.

Tom