Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt
Tore Anderson <tore@fud.no> Thu, 02 March 2017 11:11 UTC
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 12:11:04 +0100
From: Tore Anderson <tore@fud.no>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Subject: Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt
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* Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Tore Anderson <tore@fud.no> wrote: > > > 1) 2001:db8::192.0.2.1/120 > > 2) 2001:db8::198.51.100.1/120 > > 3) 2001:db8::203.0.113.0/120 > > > > These are all in the same /64 but if these tree hosts assume the /120 > > prefix length is incorrect and "helpfully correct" it to /64, then they > > can no longer communicate with each other. > > > > I think you and I have already covered this case. I don't see how we can > define the IID in any meaningful way for RFC 6052 addresses. Precisely. So if you build an host implementation that, quote, «assume[s] that its own subnet and its own IID are 64 bits long», as you suggested in your previous message, that would as I understand it break RFC7915/RFC6052 (the «vanilla SIIT» use case). > In the limited case of /96 it might work, but in the general case it > won't. > > Consider a translation prefix of 2001:db8::/56. In this case > 192.0.2.1/24 becomes (I think) 2001:db8:0:c0:2:100::/80. But if you > configure 2001:db8:0:c0:2:100::/80 on an interface, that really won't > work the way you'd like it to. For example, suppose the node gets a > packet whose destination address is 2001:db8:0:c0:2:100::1. It won't > match any of the IP addresses configured it on the system. So it will > either drop it, forward it on-link (if L=1) or forward it back to the > router it came from, potentially causing a routing loop. This is somewhat besides my original point. However, it is no different from a non-SIIT situation you'd get with a subnet prefix of 2001:db8::/64, a host configured with 2001:db8::1, and a packet destined for 2001:db8::2. I'd imagine that in most deployments the packet destined for 2001:db8::2 / 2001:db8:0:c0:2:100::1 will never reach the node at 2001:db8::1 / 2001:db8:0:c0:2:100:: becuase the router or node attempting to deliver a packet to the latter address will first need to resolve it, but there's nobody on the link to answer the transmitting router/node's neighbour solicitations for those addresses and thus it will just be dropped (and possibly cause some ICMPv6 unreachables to be generated). Or if it is a ND-less PtP interface and the host is also behaving as a router you'd indeed get a loop. But again, that's no different than what would happen with any regular non-RFC6052 /64, as documented in RFC6164 section 5.1. > So really, you can't express this type of configuration using only an > IPv6 address and a prefix length, because they don't provide enough > information to do that. "2001:db8:0:c0:2:100::/80" by itself is not > enough: you need one more piece of information, which is the length > of the NAT64 prefix. I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here? RFC7915 does currently work, and hosts participating in a network using RFC7915 do not need to know the length of the translation prefix. Side note: NAT64 [RFC6146] does not have this issue because it does not use IPv4-translatable IPv6 addresses (the same goes for SIIT-DC). That is, saying that all IPv6 prefixes must be /64 and enforcing that in the host stacks would not prevent use of NAT64 (or SIIT-DC). The issue only arises for networks/technologies that are using IPv4-translatable IPv6 addresses such as (traditional) SIIT. > As I said before, I think we should have an exception for IPv6 > addresses where the only non-zero bits in the IID are an IPv4 > address. Those aren't really IPv6 addresses anyway, they're just > convenient representations for IPv4 addresses. Well, the point is that in order to ensure compatibility with SIIT such an «exception» would need to _always_ apply, and then it's not really much of an exception anymore. At least I don't see how an IPv6 implementation could possibly distinguish between any arbitrary (non-IPv4-translatable) IPv6 address and IPv4-translatable IPv6 address? As an example, take "2001:db8:1:2:3:4:c000:201". This could be an IPv4-embedded IPv6 address where "c000:201" represents the IPv4 address 192.0.2.1, but it could also just be an arbitrary regular IPv6 address that someone configured. You can't know which it is just by looking at the address, right? And even if you did know, it wouldn't really match the «only non-zero bits in the IID are an IPv4 address», because if you either: 1) consider the IID to always be 64 bits, then there's some nonzero bits in there ("3:4") that are not part of the embedded IPv4 address, or 2) if you consider the IID to be the bits remaining after the subnet prefix has been stripped off, e.g., 2001:db8:1:2:3:4:c000:200/120 (representing 192.0.2.0/24), then the IID simply does not contain a complete IPv4 address as it's just 8 bits long. Tore
- Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Peter Hessler
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Job Snijders
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Peter Hessler
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Pierre Pfister
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Smith
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Iván Arce
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Job Snijders
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Smith
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt james woodyatt
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt james woodyatt
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt james woodyatt
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Christopher Morrow
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt mohamed.boucadair
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Peter Hessler
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt mohamed.boucadair
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Sander Steffann
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt mohamed.boucadair
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Christopher Morrow
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt james woodyatt
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Christopher Morrow
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Pierre Pfister
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Christopher Morrow
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Christopher Morrow
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Xing Li
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Xing Li
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Smith
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Smith
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Philip Homburg
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt james woodyatt
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Greg Hankins
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt sthaug
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt sthaug
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Greg Hankins
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt sthaug
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt otroan
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt otroan
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Dan Lüdtke
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt sthaug
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt David Farmer
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Iván Arce
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Iván Arce
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Smith
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Iván Arce
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Erik Kline
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Fernando Gont
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Tore Anderson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Iván Arce
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Tore Anderson
- Consensus? (was Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-… Wilco Baan Hofman
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Tore Anderson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Sander Steffann
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Job Snijders
- RE: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt mohamed.boucadair
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt otroan
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Ca By
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Fred Baker
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Philip Homburg
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Christian Huitema
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt 神明達哉
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Simon Hobson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Simon Hobson
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt otroan
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.tx… otroan
- Re: Objection to draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt Alexandre Petrescu