Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub networks...
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Fri, 04 December 2020 21:22 UTC
Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EA43A0D70 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:22:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.887
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bDa7K14_wFKS for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0ECA13A0FD7 for <6man@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:22:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id l7so5016494qtp.8 for <6man@ietf.org>; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:22:51 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=HvjMG1ENi8j0TKptL/7qlPm6ACOwbTVQR8DiNmCkRks=; b=kyXKafaxbLDqgdEqRdQLmoV20/9g5n4fqdHwiTZG8iy+oEdXRjZqoLUtWxT7F9KdWh L3TinkKTyKCIfS3dyE0FQlf/HYSKSb7P7wPUPbk1yckpAz6EdCK23jQEpvTG4J+28cQw 2DpLXhyjPHyfSaCY1HHBVQWVCvpHh16OyUjPGMXnnS5UPAzFNrRc8+D2s6AQzxIwqbv6 g2probvGTasmh+nHNK3HJ0cs3b2I4AwKo9MrvuRZ46+G/PXLBoayb8NQPxGS9zdDOYsP uWRMUklWx/4NSqbGJiiBkikQS4Ubi9tA+KmDc9mY9Hti/aTHD00r+/4g09VUNad2zNi3 zn0w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=HvjMG1ENi8j0TKptL/7qlPm6ACOwbTVQR8DiNmCkRks=; b=gtdGk9BjEffbI7FywArXAJtjyvtZoY6luIW0yOdSg+tUk2oh+y40qaL3N15R0RDK0V goDw/hoE6VUKUTYq9LZzsJn81OiJXxaw98Ve9evqjev4w+/HJl3cWK55SK9ywnujPy4I GQsO80sl6pWId3YyetAnYJNVc9fcnIRy9XMlZeGd2Eq9C5X6op6OTpklopUTcpQSyJAj rnnCvW/48RPrc7gy9mEcbVuQbo1kbb2oU43pjC2g0NFK329uHFa2lsAOlS9ZGee7XHQ4 PKYxK5vqV5lKHWD4MKs14Ou+XpehxI23FoYNDs8IzSItM/CAXAu9/0QXCcd+4ErUbe2/ njag==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LWGbxeUczQRizB3bJUhn2QXUoImaLLj5Bu6d/XZgXz8K3PJVg j6VjQi0+nk25aIHjMbNkPHUnyA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwpYRZsXqSw8SKnN65TBEDW4pXpOTbG4UF7FwlgxCFgJBifjaPaHIzoh1yLwnV6IL5SEE2o9g==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:545a:: with SMTP id d26mr11721303qtq.390.1607116970668; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mithrandir.lan (c-24-91-177-160.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.91.177.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 13sm6238987qkp.16.2020.12.04.13.22.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\))
Subject: Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub networks...
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <20201204085738.GZ44833@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 16:22:48 -0500
Cc: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>, iotops@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <1ABBA0B7-AEAA-4018-A113-365C9B77306F@fugue.com>
References: <695953.1606952552@dooku> <B989299A-ED3C-4205-A4E2-DA080F574B33@fugue.com> <20201203174901.GW44833@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <36EA3F9D-A79D-4BC0-B894-54B7D3054476@fugue.com> <20201204064930.GY44833@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <B9DC56CD-E2A7-469C-9E8F-596554DA1A80@employees.org> <20201204085738.GZ44833@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/SC0ld7XroTWJLq2mD6EKPHnoZ7c>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 21:22:54 -0000
On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:57 AM, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote: > I would fear the current business cases might be fine with such a limitation, > but i for once would find it dissatisfactory if the protocol solution > would be limited to just one level. There isn’t really any new protocol work required. > >> It prohibits multi-homing. What about the case where a node is attached to the stub with a hypervisor and VMs requiring addressing? >> Is sending all traffic via the root acceptable? Instead of short-cutting between stub routers? >> >> B) Is it possible to restrict the solution to the site having been delegated enough address space? >> Or do you need to handle the cases where the site has: >> a) not received enough /64s to number all links >> b) have only been delegated a single /64 >> c) have only a shared /64 >> d) have only a single address > > Not trying to answer all these points, but: > > To me the most simple model is around the following constraints/requirements: > > stub-router ----link --- infra-router > > a) stub-router and infra-router are potentially different admin, aka: > we do not want to use signaling between them such as a typical > link-state-routing protocol where you can not create good trust-domain > boundries within the topology. Dijkstra protos are a bit better, but > i think no one has tried to come up with good definitions for "internal" > trust boundaries. > > b) infra-router hands out prefix(es) to stub-router. It shouldn't have > anything to say about how stub-router uses them. So stub-router could > subtend sub-prefixes as it sees fit. Infra router does NOT accept > prefixes back from stub-router. > > Not sure yet about similar rules for the naming / services for DNS-SD, > but there may need to be some similar rules. > > And from service provider use cases, i remember various other DHCP options > that infra-router may need to see proxied across stubb-router to clients > if/when clients rely on DHCP opions instead of DNS-SD to discover specific > services. Which for example in the home a lot of the service-provider > equipment such as IPTV STBs expects to be able to do. Does anybody actually do that? I ask because I don’t know of any routers that support it. I guess some ISPs do custom routers and don’t let the customer choose? Anyway, best is the enemy of good enough. We already have a solution for the self-configuring mesh; if that’s what we want, HNCP is our best option at present. There’s no need to do additional protocol work here.
- Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... David Farmer
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Richard Patterson
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Simon Hobson
- Re: Automatically connecting stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Qin Wu
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Michael Richardson
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... otroan
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- RE: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Michael Richardson
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Philip Homburg
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Philip Homburg
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... Philip Homburg
- Re: Automatically connecting to stub networks... otroan
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… otroan
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… otroan
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Philip Homburg
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- RE: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… STARK, BARBARA H
- RE: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Iotops] Automatically connect… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] [Iotops] Automatically connecting … Ted Lemon
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Iotops] Automatically connect… Mark Smith
- RE: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [Iotops] Automatically connecting to stub net… Ted Lemon