Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt

["Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[e-mail]>]

Fred,

But this draft is educational about the art of what we have. You’re fighting the wrong draft and I do not see that it helps you progress your own work. But it’s a free world.

Regards,

Pascal

> Le 18 mai 2021 à 22:54, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
> 
> Pascal,
> 
> Sorry to be disruptive, but you think you have a generalized solution for
> wireless and I think I have a generalized solution for wireless. Mine includes
> a familiar link model that builds on mature standards and BCPs and as near
> as I can tell does so in an optimal fashion. OMNI is no longer research or a
> pre-prototype toy; OMNI is engineering-ready for IETF progression.
> 
> Fred
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 1:36 PM
>> To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>> 
>> EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Fred,
>> 
>> This does not tell me why you bring this work in this discussion. I do not see that disrupting this thread can help your work to progress.
>> 
>> I agree with Eduard that it is a good time to poll and see whether 6MAN wishes to adopt this work.
>> 
>> Maybe this is not the place for creating educational material such as this.
>> 
>> Whether this doc gets published here or not, it is my hope that we can debate and possibly reach a consensus on our basic concepts.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Pascal
>> 
>>>> Le 18 mai 2021 à 21:38, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Pascal,
>>> 
>>> Apologies, I should have presented the URL's in the reverse order and
>>> recommended looking first at OMNI which specifies details of the OMNI
>>> interface and link model. AERO is a companion document that specifies
>>> internetworking considerations for nodes that employ OMNI interfaces,
>>> but please start first with OMNI:
>>> 
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
>>> 
>>> Thanks - Fred
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:[e-mail]]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:12 AM
>>>> To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
>>>> Cc: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Fred
>>>> 
>>>> I fail to understand why you present Aero as an alternative.
>>>> 
>>>> This draft discusses links and subnet models and how existing RFCs can be applied to those models. It is a BCP type of work looking at
>>>> existing stuff and trying to make sense of it.
>>>> 
>>>> Seems that aero is defining new mechanisms and falls in the std track category. Where exactly do they compete?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Pascal
>>>> 
>>>>>> Le 18 mai 2021 à 18:32, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is premature to propose adoption without first considering the alternative:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fred
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Vasilenko Eduard
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 9:20 AM
>>>>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> Current ND is not compatible with any Wireless, especially for low power or roaming scenarios. Hence, the proper discussion would
>> be
>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>> Hence, I propose to adopt draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless in 6man.
>>>>>> Eduard
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:00 AM
>>>>>> To: Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many thanks Brian;
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Though writing code and deploying networks is core to many of us, we also end up teaching, writing papers and publishing
>>>> informational
>>>>>> documents in other bodies such as ETSI. It was during a discussion for an ETSI doc that we realized we were missing those definitions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But above there's a need to regain a degree of freedom in how we use links and subnets. The lack of definitions leads to overloading
>>>> and
>>>>>> confusion, which in turn leads to confine us within the commonly understood model that is ethernet.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As we separate the definition of the IP link from that of the lower layer, and separate the definition of subnet from that of IPv4, we
>>>> regain
>>>>>> a degree of freedom that enables us to build IPv6 abstractions over any new medium and build subnets of any size and shape.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Happy to discuss the exact terms of the definitions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Keep safe,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pascal
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: ipv6 <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter
>>>>>>> Sent: lundi 17 mai 2021 23:55
>>>>>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> IMHO this draft now includes some important new material, namely
>>>>>>> definitions of two terms "IP Link" and "IP Subnet" (at
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-
>>>>>>> 09.html#name-terminology ). While I'm not sure yet that I completely
>>>>>>> agree with the text, I think the topic is very important, since the
>>>>>>> previous doctrine has effectively been that all "links" behave like
>>>>>>> Ethernet. And, by the way, the socket API incorporates that doctrine.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (This is something that gave us quite a lot of angst in ANIMA,
>>>>>>> especially in clarifying the "link" model in the Autonomic Control
>>>>>>> Plane, since we depend on link-local multicast.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 18-May-21 02:45, [e-mail] wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>>>>> directories.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>      Title           : IPv6 Neighbor Discovery on Wireless Networks
>>>>>>>>      Author          : Pascal Thubert
>>>>>>>>  Filename        : draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>>>>>  Pages           : 25
>>>>>>>>  Date            : 2021-05-17
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>>>> This document describes how the original IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Wireless ND (WiND) can be applied on various abstractions of
>>>>>>> wireless
>>>>>>>> media.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirele
>>>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireles
>>>>>>>> s-
>>>>>>>> 09.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirel
>>>>>>>> es
>>>>>>>> s-09
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>>>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>>>>>>> tools.ietf.org.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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