RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt

["Templin (US), Fred L" <[e-mail]>]

Pascal,

Sorry to be disruptive, but you think you have a generalized solution for
wireless and I think I have a generalized solution for wireless. Mine includes
a familiar link model that builds on mature standards and BCPs and as near
as I can tell does so in an optimal fashion. OMNI is no longer research or a
pre-prototype toy; OMNI is engineering-ready for IETF progression.

Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 1:36 PM
> To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> 
> EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.
> 
> 
> 
> Fred,
> 
> This does not tell me why you bring this work in this discussion. I do not see that disrupting this thread can help your work to progress.
> 
> I agree with Eduard that it is a good time to poll and see whether 6MAN wishes to adopt this work.
> 
> Maybe this is not the place for creating educational material such as this.
> 
> Whether this doc gets published here or not, it is my hope that we can debate and possibly reach a consensus on our basic concepts.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Pascal
> 
> > Le 18 mai 2021 à 21:38, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
> >
> > Pascal,
> >
> > Apologies, I should have presented the URL's in the reverse order and
> > recommended looking first at OMNI which specifies details of the OMNI
> > interface and link model. AERO is a companion document that specifies
> > internetworking considerations for nodes that employ OMNI interfaces,
> > but please start first with OMNI:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
> >
> > Thanks - Fred
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:[e-mail]]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:12 AM
> >> To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
> >> Cc: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>
> >> Hello Fred
> >>
> >> I fail to understand why you present Aero as an alternative.
> >>
> >> This draft discusses links and subnet models and how existing RFCs can be applied to those models. It is a BCP type of work looking at
> >> existing stuff and trying to make sense of it.
> >>
> >> Seems that aero is defining new mechanisms and falls in the std track category. Where exactly do they compete?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Pascal
> >>
> >>>> Le 18 mai 2021 à 18:32, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
> >>>
> >>> It is premature to propose adoption without first considering the alternative:
> >>>
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
> >>>
> >>> Fred
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Vasilenko Eduard
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 9:20 AM
> >>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
> >>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>> Current ND is not compatible with any Wireless, especially for low power or roaming scenarios. Hence, the proper discussion would
> be
> >>>> helpful.
> >>>> Hence, I propose to adopt draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless in 6man.
> >>>> Eduard
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:00 AM
> >>>> To: Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
> >>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>>>
> >>>> Many thanks Brian;
> >>>>
> >>>> Though writing code and deploying networks is core to many of us, we also end up teaching, writing papers and publishing
> >> informational
> >>>> documents in other bodies such as ETSI. It was during a discussion for an ETSI doc that we realized we were missing those definitions.
> >>>>
> >>>> But above there's a need to regain a degree of freedom in how we use links and subnets. The lack of definitions leads to overloading
> >> and
> >>>> confusion, which in turn leads to confine us within the commonly understood model that is ethernet.
> >>>>
> >>>> As we separate the definition of the IP link from that of the lower layer, and separate the definition of subnet from that of IPv4, we
> >> regain
> >>>> a degree of freedom that enables us to build IPv6 abstractions over any new medium and build subnets of any size and shape.
> >>>>
> >>>> Happy to discuss the exact terms of the definitions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Keep safe,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Pascal
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: ipv6 <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter
> >>>>> Sent: lundi 17 mai 2021 23:55
> >>>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IMHO this draft now includes some important new material, namely
> >>>>> definitions of two terms "IP Link" and "IP Subnet" (at
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-
> >>>>> 09.html#name-terminology ). While I'm not sure yet that I completely
> >>>>> agree with the text, I think the topic is very important, since the
> >>>>> previous doctrine has effectively been that all "links" behave like
> >>>>> Ethernet. And, by the way, the socket API incorporates that doctrine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (This is something that gave us quite a lot of angst in ANIMA,
> >>>>> especially in clarifying the "link" model in the Autonomic Control
> >>>>> Plane, since we depend on link-local multicast.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>  Brian
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 18-May-21 02:45, [e-mail] wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >>>>> directories.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       Title           : IPv6 Neighbor Discovery on Wireless Networks
> >>>>>>       Author          : Pascal Thubert
> >>>>>>   Filename        : draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>>>>>   Pages           : 25
> >>>>>>   Date            : 2021-05-17
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Abstract:
> >>>>>>  This document describes how the original IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>  Wireless ND (WiND) can be applied on various abstractions of
> >>>>> wireless
> >>>>>>  media.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> >>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirele
> >>>>>> ss
> >>>>>> /
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireles
> >>>>>> s-
> >>>>>> 09.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirel
> >>>>>> es
> >>>>>> s-09
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> >>>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> >>>>> tools.ietf.org.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> I-D-Announce mailing list
> >>>>>> [e-mail]
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >>>>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
> >>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
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