Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt

["Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[e-mail]>]

Fred,

This does not tell me why you bring this work in this discussion. I do not see that disrupting this thread can help your work to progress. 

I agree with Eduard that it is a good time to poll and see whether 6MAN wishes to adopt this work. 

Maybe this is not the place for creating educational material such as this.

Whether this doc gets published here or not, it is my hope that we can debate and possibly reach a consensus on our basic concepts.

Regards,

Pascal

> Le 18 mai 2021 à 21:38, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
> 
> Pascal,
> 
> Apologies, I should have presented the URL's in the reverse order and
> recommended looking first at OMNI which specifies details of the OMNI
> interface and link model. AERO is a companion document that specifies
> internetworking considerations for nodes that employ OMNI interfaces,
> but please start first with OMNI:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
> 
> Thanks - Fred
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:12 AM
>> To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
>> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>> 
>> Hello Fred
>> 
>> I fail to understand why you present Aero as an alternative.
>> 
>> This draft discusses links and subnet models and how existing RFCs can be applied to those models. It is a BCP type of work looking at
>> existing stuff and trying to make sense of it.
>> 
>> Seems that aero is defining new mechanisms and falls in the std track category. Where exactly do they compete?
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Pascal
>> 
>>>> Le 18 mai 2021 à 18:32, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> It is premature to propose adoption without first considering the alternative:
>>> 
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-aero/
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni/
>>> 
>>> Fred
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Vasilenko Eduard
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 9:20 AM
>>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> Current ND is not compatible with any Wireless, especially for low power or roaming scenarios. Hence, the proper discussion would be
>>>> helpful.
>>>> Hence, I propose to adopt draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless in 6man.
>>>> Eduard
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ipv6 [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:00 AM
>>>> To: Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks Brian;
>>>> 
>>>> Though writing code and deploying networks is core to many of us, we also end up teaching, writing papers and publishing
>> informational
>>>> documents in other bodies such as ETSI. It was during a discussion for an ETSI doc that we realized we were missing those definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> But above there's a need to regain a degree of freedom in how we use links and subnets. The lack of definitions leads to overloading
>> and
>>>> confusion, which in turn leads to confine us within the commonly understood model that is ethernet.
>>>> 
>>>> As we separate the definition of the IP link from that of the lower layer, and separate the definition of subnet from that of IPv4, we
>> regain
>>>> a degree of freedom that enables us to build IPv6 abstractions over any new medium and build subnets of any size and shape.
>>>> 
>>>> Happy to discuss the exact terms of the definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> Keep safe,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Pascal
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ipv6 <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter
>>>>> Sent: lundi 17 mai 2021 23:55
>>>>> To: 6man <[e-mail]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> IMHO this draft now includes some important new material, namely
>>>>> definitions of two terms "IP Link" and "IP Subnet" (at
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-
>>>>> 09.html#name-terminology ). While I'm not sure yet that I completely
>>>>> agree with the text, I think the topic is very important, since the
>>>>> previous doctrine has effectively been that all "links" behave like
>>>>> Ethernet. And, by the way, the socket API incorporates that doctrine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> (This is something that gave us quite a lot of angst in ANIMA,
>>>>> especially in clarifying the "link" model in the Autonomic Control
>>>>> Plane, since we depend on link-local multicast.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>  Brian
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 18-May-21 02:45, [e-mail] wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>>> directories.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       Title           : IPv6 Neighbor Discovery on Wireless Networks
>>>>>>       Author          : Pascal Thubert
>>>>>>   Filename        : draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
>>>>>>   Pages           : 25
>>>>>>   Date            : 2021-05-17
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>>  This document describes how the original IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
>>>>> and
>>>>>>  Wireless ND (WiND) can be applied on various abstractions of
>>>>> wireless
>>>>>>  media.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirele
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>> /
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireles
>>>>>> s-
>>>>>> 09.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wirel
>>>>>> es
>>>>>> s-09
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>>>>> tools.ietf.org.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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