RE: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt

> In the same time frame, RFC 2461 recognized the existence of NBMA
> and the need for further studies to support it.

The OMNI link model is exactly NBMA, which is a fortuitous inheritance
from the ISATAP days (also related to Brian's 6over4).

Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 2:24 PM
> To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> Cc: 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> 
> I agree with that Brian;
> 
> the definition is too limiting for many networks we observe today, typically networks where one will not set the onlink bit in a PIO.
> 
> In a sense it was already an over-limiting definition at the time that rfc was published, e.g., some implementations like Proteon/IBM could
> model a frame relay network as P2MP or NBMA in the late 90’s. In the same time frame, RFC 2461 recognized the existence of NBMA
> and the need for further studies to support it.
> 
> I guess we’re here to broaden the picture.
> 
> More importantly, the rfc describes the lower layer network as opposed to the abstraction of it that one choses to apply at the IO layer. It
> is important to remind the user that the L3 model is a conscious decision that is not fully dictated by the lower layer subnetwork.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Pascal
> 
> > Le 18 mai 2021 à 23:06, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > On 19-May-21 00:31, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
> >> RFC 3819 is mostly not an overlap with what we’re trying to do here, Mark. But that’s a cool reference to keep in mind, thank you for
> this.
> >
> > Specifically, it says:
> >
> >   Subnetworks fall into two categories: point-to-point and shared.  A
> >   point-to-point subnet has exactly two endpoint components (hosts or
> >   routers); a shared link has more than two endpoint components, using
> >   either an inherently broadcast medium (e.g., Ethernet, radio) or a
> >   switching layer hidden from the network layer (e.g., switched
> >   Ethernet, Myrinet [MYR95], ATM).
> >
> > and that is exactly what is no longer always true.
> >
> >   Brian
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Pascal
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Mark Smith
> >> *Sent:* mardi 18 mai 2021 9:06
> >> *To:* Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> >> *Cc:* 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>
> >> *Subject:* Re: I-D Action: draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 18 May 2021, 07:55 Brian E Carpenter, <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>    Hi,
> >>
> >>    IMHO this draft now includes some important new material, namely definitions of two terms "IP Link" and "IP Subnet" (at
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.html#name-terminology
> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.html#name-terminology> ). While I'm not sure yet that I
> completely agree with the text, I think the topic is very important, since the previous
> > doctrine has effectively been that all "links" behave like Ethernet. And,
> > by the way, the socket API incorporates that doctrine.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> RFC 3819, Advice for Internet Subnetwork Designers, also being BCP
> > 89, would seem to me to be the or close to the IETF's definition of a "link" since it is providing advice on the design of them:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Abstract
> >>
> >>    This document provides advice to the designers of digital
> >>    communication equipment, link-layer protocols, and packet-switched
> >>    local networks (collectively referred to as subnetworks), who wish to
> >>    support the Internet protocols but may be unfamiliar with the
> >>    Internet architecture and the implications of their design
> > choices on
> >>    the performance and efficiency of the Internet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    (This is something that gave us quite a lot of angst in ANIMA, especially in clarifying the "link" model in the Autonomic Control Plane,
> since we depend on link-local multicast.)
> >>
> >>    Regards
> >>       Brian
> >>
> >>>    On 18-May-21 02:45, internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>          Title
> >    : IPv6 Neighbor Discovery on Wireless Networks
> >>>          Author
> >   : Pascal Thubert
> >>>        Filename        : draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.txt
> >>>        Pages
> >  : 25
> >>>        Date            : 2021-05-17
> >>>
> >>> Abstract:
> >>>     This document describes how the original IPv6 Neighbor Discovery and
> >>>     Wireless ND (WiND) can be applied on various abstractions of wireless
> >>>     media.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-
> over-wireless/>
> >>>
> >>> There is also an HTML version available at:
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09.html <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thubert-6man-
> ipv6-over-wireless-09.html>
> >>>
> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-thubert-6man-ipv6-over-wireless-09 <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-thubert-6man-
> ipv6-over-wireless-09>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission
> >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org>.
> >>>
> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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