Re: [irtf-discuss] [Internet Policy] Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet

[Axel Abad <[e-mail]>]

I.M.H.O. : This is a fallacy from the beggining. Maybe was a nice idealism.. very altruistic and selfless.

But the true is there for everyone to see.

Why  should we think that Internet must be of and for everybody?
Is that more important than the Human Health? or the Food? (not for free, not for everyone)

By the moment, the only thing that we can consume freely  is the Air... Al the other "basic" needs are rated and have a cost..
Is sad, but is true.

Access to technology will be always reserved for some portion of the human kind. There are lots of people who don´t have access to food.. or even water... They are not concerned about Internet, for sure... But there are a lot of others who didn´t have access to basic tools, like a hammer or a spade...

So, the "formula" is very simple: If you have enough resources to live in the current culture without worries about food and roof needs (and other basics), then "you are in" (if you want invest on that).

Then, access to technology is costly. If you can have this access, then someone is receiving something in exchange.
And there is when the Internet stops be of all and for all. And there is when the "control" begins.
No matter if it is on a Governement hands, or a Private entity.

Until the entire Human race enter on the next Kardashov civilization age (type II) we will continue to be "energy provider" dependent, and that´s include all related technologies involved with electrical energy (Telecomm, Internet, etc.)

To have Internet free for all, we need to have Energy free for all first.

That´s is my comment about. Sorry if it is not "nice" or "kindly".

Axel Abad.-



________________________________
De: InternetPolicy <[e-mail]> en nombre de willi uebelherr via InternetPolicy <[e-mail]>
Enviado: lunes, 28 de marzo de 2022 15:47
Para: ISOC Internet Policy <[e-mail]>
Cc: IRTF discuss <[e-mail]>; IETF discussion <[e-mail]>; IGF governance <[e-mail]>
Asunto: Re: [Internet Policy] Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet


Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet
Andrew Sullivan, 02.03.2022
https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/

Internet Fragmentation: An Overview
William Drake, Vinton Cerf, Wolfgang Kleinwächter
01.2016
https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_FII_Internet_Fragmentation_An_Overview_2016.pdf

Dear friends,

i am very surprised at the passion in this discussion to gather on side
issues instead of addressing the main issues.

The statement by Andrew Sullivan from ISOC still stands:
"The Internet have to be for everyone".

And from a member of the IETF-maillist:
"Internet, from the people, for the people ..."

Already in 2016 this text was published, which I linked at the beginning
of this email:
"Internet Fragmentation: An Overview."

On page 10 we read:
"From a technical standpoint, the original shared vision guiding the
Internet's development was that every device on the Internet should be
able to exchange data packets with any other device that was willing to
receive them. ..."

And even in our 1st discussion in 2016 on the topic of the Internet on
ISOC's global policy list, there was no relevant interest to address the
basic problem in the construction of an Internet.

When private and governmental interests dominate, nothing can ever
emerge that is intended to work for communities of people. It then
remains a fragmented entity where only individual interests are to be
realized. And there we are still.

We see today how disastrous this way is. The Russian Federation has now
put a stop to this madness by ending the militarization and fascization
of Eurasia.

And we see in the food supply the consequences of regions not respecting
their sovereignty and autonomy. World trade and global economic
constriction is part of the great nonsense that people have come up
with. The Roman Empire also failed in this. And the US dollar empire
will also fail.

We, as actors for a free global communication of the people of this
planet, do not need privatization and state control mania. Etatism will
be buried.

We need the creative development of local and regional potentials. Even
if telecommunication is not a food, it is the prerequisite for our free
exchange of theoretical bases and our construction ideas, in order to be
able to produce all that we really need. And always there, where it is
also needed.

The telecommunication in the form of an Internet is our instrument to
overcome our fragmentation of the people into ethnic groups and
linguistic and cultural spaces, in order to give to all people the
possibility to be able to produce their stable material bases of life
according to our natural conditions of existence.

You see, I refer here clearly and without compromise to the statement of
Andrew Sullivan. Maybe some of you find my interpretation of this
statement unpleasant or not purposeful? Then let's talk about our
intentions and motivations that lead us to deal with questions of an
InterNet and to talk and write about it.

When we talk about construction principles, we are not yet talking about
the details of the components that are needed for it and how they can be
created. Every manufacturing process rests on 3 phases:
Design, Construction and Manufacturing.

We are actually back in the design phase because we can or might
recognize that what has been created over the last few decades is not
fit for purpose. So it was a design failure from the beginning.

with kind regards, willi
Asuncion, Paraguay


original in german ----------------------------------------------------

Liebe freunde,

ich bin sehr erstaunt ueber die Leidenschaft in dieser Diskussion, sich
auf Nebenschauplaetzen zu versammeln, statt sich den Hauptfragen zu widmen.

Nach wie vor steht die Aussage von Andrew Sullivan von ISOC im Raum:
"The Internet have to be for everyone".

And from a member of the IETF-maillist:
"Internet, from the people, for the people ..."

Schon 2016 wurde dieser Text veroeffentlicht, den ich am Anfang dieser
email verlinkt habe:
"Internet Fragmentation: An Overview."

Auf Seite 10 lesen wir:
"From a technical standpoint, the original shared vision guiding the
Internet’s development was that every device on the Internet should be
able to exchange data packets with any other device that was willing to
receive them. ..."

Und schon in unserer 1. Diskussion 2016 zum Thema Internet auf der
globalen policy-liste von ISOC war kein relevantes Interesse zu
erkennen, die Grundproblematik in der Konstruktion eines Internet
anzusprechen.

Wenn private und staatliche Interessen dominieren, kann niemals etwas
entstehen, das fuer die Gemeinschaften der Menschen wirken soll. Es
bleibt dann ein fragmentiertes Gebilde, wo nur individuale Interessen
realisiert werden sollen. Und da sind wir immer noch.

Wir sehen heute, wie katastrophal dieser Weg ist. Die russische
Foederation hat diesem Irrsinn nun einen Stop gesetzt, indem sie die
Militarisierung und Faschisierung von Eurasien beendet.

Und wir sehen in der Nahrungsmittelversorgung die Konsequenzen, wenn die
Regionen nicht auf ihre Souveraenitaet und Autonomie achten. Welthandel
und globale oekonomische Verschraenkung ist Teil des grossen Bloedsinns,
den sich die Menschen ausgedacht haben. Auch das roemische Imperium ist
daran gescheitert. Und das US-Dollar-Imperium wird auch daran scheitern.

Wir, als Akteure fuer eine freie globale Kommunikation der Menschen
dieses Planeten brauchen keine Privatisierung und staatlichen
Kontrollwahn. Der Etatismus wird begraben.

Wir brauchen die kreative Entfaltung der lokalen und regionalen
Potentiale. Auch wenn die Telekommunikation kein Lebensmittel ist, so
ist sie doch die Vorraussetzung fuer unseren freien Austausch der
theoretischen Grundlagen und unserer Konstruktionsideen, um all jenes
herstellen zu koennen, was wir wirklich brauchen. Und immer dort, wo es
auch gebraucht wird.

Die Telekommunikation in Form eines Internet ist unser Instrument, um
unsere Fragmentisierung der Menschen in Ethnien und spachliche und
kulturelle Raeume zu ueberwinden, um allen Menschen die Moeglichkeit zu
geben, ihre stabilen materiellen Lebensgrundlagen gemaess unserer
natuerlichen Existenzbedingungen selbst herstellen zu koennen.

Ihr seht, ich beziehe mich hier eindeutig und ohne Kompromisse auf die
Aussage von Andrew Sullivan. Vielleicht ist manchem von euch meine
Interpretation dieser Aussage unangenehm oder nicht zielfuehrend? Dann
lasst uns ueber unsere Intentionen und Motivationen sprechen, die uns
veranlassen, uns mit fragen eines InterNet zu beschaeftigen und drueber
zu sprechen und zu schreiben.

Wenn wir ueber Konstruktionsprinzipien sprechen, dann geht es noch nicht
um die Details der Komponenten, die dafuer gebraucht werden und wie sie
entstehen koennen. Jeder Herstellungsprozess ruht auf 3 Phasen:
Design/Entwurf, Konstruktion und Herstellung.

Wir befinden uns eigentlich wieder in der Entwurfsphase, weil wir
erkennen koennen oder koennten, dass das, was die letzten Jahrzehnte
entstanden ist, nicht tauglich ist. Es war also von Anfang an ein
Entwurfsfehler.

mit lieben Gruessen, willi
Asuncion, Paraguay

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