Re: [irtf-discuss] Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet

willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr@riseup.net> Mon, 28 March 2022 18:47 UTC

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Subject: Re: [irtf-discuss] Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet
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Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet
Andrew Sullivan, 02.03.2022
https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/

Internet Fragmentation: An Overview
William Drake, Vinton Cerf, Wolfgang Kleinwächter
01.2016
https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_FII_Internet_Fragmentation_An_Overview_2016.pdf

Dear friends,

i am very surprised at the passion in this discussion to gather on side 
issues instead of addressing the main issues.

The statement by Andrew Sullivan from ISOC still stands:
"The Internet have to be for everyone".

And from a member of the IETF-maillist:
"Internet, from the people, for the people ..."

Already in 2016 this text was published, which I linked at the beginning 
of this email:
"Internet Fragmentation: An Overview."

On page 10 we read:
"From a technical standpoint, the original shared vision guiding the 
Internet's development was that every device on the Internet should be 
able to exchange data packets with any other device that was willing to 
receive them. ..."

And even in our 1st discussion in 2016 on the topic of the Internet on 
ISOC's global policy list, there was no relevant interest to address the 
basic problem in the construction of an Internet.

When private and governmental interests dominate, nothing can ever 
emerge that is intended to work for communities of people. It then 
remains a fragmented entity where only individual interests are to be 
realized. And there we are still.

We see today how disastrous this way is. The Russian Federation has now 
put a stop to this madness by ending the militarization and fascization 
of Eurasia.

And we see in the food supply the consequences of regions not respecting 
their sovereignty and autonomy. World trade and global economic 
constriction is part of the great nonsense that people have come up 
with. The Roman Empire also failed in this. And the US dollar empire 
will also fail.

We, as actors for a free global communication of the people of this 
planet, do not need privatization and state control mania. Etatism will 
be buried.

We need the creative development of local and regional potentials. Even 
if telecommunication is not a food, it is the prerequisite for our free 
exchange of theoretical bases and our construction ideas, in order to be 
able to produce all that we really need. And always there, where it is 
also needed.

The telecommunication in the form of an Internet is our instrument to 
overcome our fragmentation of the people into ethnic groups and 
linguistic and cultural spaces, in order to give to all people the 
possibility to be able to produce their stable material bases of life 
according to our natural conditions of existence.

You see, I refer here clearly and without compromise to the statement of 
Andrew Sullivan. Maybe some of you find my interpretation of this 
statement unpleasant or not purposeful? Then let's talk about our 
intentions and motivations that lead us to deal with questions of an 
InterNet and to talk and write about it.

When we talk about construction principles, we are not yet talking about 
the details of the components that are needed for it and how they can be 
created. Every manufacturing process rests on 3 phases:
Design, Construction and Manufacturing.

We are actually back in the design phase because we can or might 
recognize that what has been created over the last few decades is not 
fit for purpose. So it was a design failure from the beginning.

with kind regards, willi
Asuncion, Paraguay


original in german ----------------------------------------------------

Liebe freunde,

ich bin sehr erstaunt ueber die Leidenschaft in dieser Diskussion, sich 
auf Nebenschauplaetzen zu versammeln, statt sich den Hauptfragen zu widmen.

Nach wie vor steht die Aussage von Andrew Sullivan von ISOC im Raum:
"The Internet have to be for everyone".

And from a member of the IETF-maillist:
"Internet, from the people, for the people ..."

Schon 2016 wurde dieser Text veroeffentlicht, den ich am Anfang dieser 
email verlinkt habe:
"Internet Fragmentation: An Overview."

Auf Seite 10 lesen wir:
"From a technical standpoint, the original shared vision guiding the 
Internet’s development was that every device on the Internet should be 
able to exchange data packets with any other device that was willing to 
receive them. ..."

Und schon in unserer 1. Diskussion 2016 zum Thema Internet auf der 
globalen policy-liste von ISOC war kein relevantes Interesse zu 
erkennen, die Grundproblematik in der Konstruktion eines Internet 
anzusprechen.

Wenn private und staatliche Interessen dominieren, kann niemals etwas 
entstehen, das fuer die Gemeinschaften der Menschen wirken soll. Es 
bleibt dann ein fragmentiertes Gebilde, wo nur individuale Interessen 
realisiert werden sollen. Und da sind wir immer noch.

Wir sehen heute, wie katastrophal dieser Weg ist. Die russische 
Foederation hat diesem Irrsinn nun einen Stop gesetzt, indem sie die 
Militarisierung und Faschisierung von Eurasien beendet.

Und wir sehen in der Nahrungsmittelversorgung die Konsequenzen, wenn die 
Regionen nicht auf ihre Souveraenitaet und Autonomie achten. Welthandel 
und globale oekonomische Verschraenkung ist Teil des grossen Bloedsinns, 
den sich die Menschen ausgedacht haben. Auch das roemische Imperium ist 
daran gescheitert. Und das US-Dollar-Imperium wird auch daran scheitern.

Wir, als Akteure fuer eine freie globale Kommunikation der Menschen 
dieses Planeten brauchen keine Privatisierung und staatlichen 
Kontrollwahn. Der Etatismus wird begraben.

Wir brauchen die kreative Entfaltung der lokalen und regionalen 
Potentiale. Auch wenn die Telekommunikation kein Lebensmittel ist, so 
ist sie doch die Vorraussetzung fuer unseren freien Austausch der 
theoretischen Grundlagen und unserer Konstruktionsideen, um all jenes 
herstellen zu koennen, was wir wirklich brauchen. Und immer dort, wo es 
auch gebraucht wird.

Die Telekommunikation in Form eines Internet ist unser Instrument, um 
unsere Fragmentisierung der Menschen in Ethnien und spachliche und 
kulturelle Raeume zu ueberwinden, um allen Menschen die Moeglichkeit zu 
geben, ihre stabilen materiellen Lebensgrundlagen gemaess unserer 
natuerlichen Existenzbedingungen selbst herstellen zu koennen.

Ihr seht, ich beziehe mich hier eindeutig und ohne Kompromisse auf die 
Aussage von Andrew Sullivan. Vielleicht ist manchem von euch meine 
Interpretation dieser Aussage unangenehm oder nicht zielfuehrend? Dann 
lasst uns ueber unsere Intentionen und Motivationen sprechen, die uns 
veranlassen, uns mit fragen eines InterNet zu beschaeftigen und drueber 
zu sprechen und zu schreiben.

Wenn wir ueber Konstruktionsprinzipien sprechen, dann geht es noch nicht 
um die Details der Komponenten, die dafuer gebraucht werden und wie sie 
entstehen koennen. Jeder Herstellungsprozess ruht auf 3 Phasen:
Design/Entwurf, Konstruktion und Herstellung.

Wir befinden uns eigentlich wieder in der Entwurfsphase, weil wir 
erkennen koennen oder koennten, dass das, was die letzten Jahrzehnte 
entstanden ist, nicht tauglich ist. Es war also von Anfang an ein 
Entwurfsfehler.

mit lieben Gruessen, willi
Asuncion, Paraguay