Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

[Loa Andersson <[e-mail]>]

Andy,

Tnx - I have a question about "provisioned". I think "provisioning" is
the activity both to install and remove labels, right?

Does "provisioned" mean both also, or just install?

/Loa

On 2015-05-02 15:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Loa,
>
> Sure, that works for me too. A good word to use instead of "installed"
> is "provisioned".
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>     Andy,
>
>     So you say that even though the labels in draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe
>     are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", because that is
>     how we defined them for MPLS-TP.
>
>     Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems to be
>     converging on:
>
>     Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by
>                           configuration.
>
>     I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", but for now
>     that is not important.
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>         Loa,
>
>         Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for
>         MPLS-TP, as
>         they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the
>         routers
>         (LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921:
>
>              A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the
>         support of a
>              dynamic control plane.  This may be either by direct
>         configuration of
>              the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system.
>
>
>         Cheers,
>         Andy
>
>
>         On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:
>
>              Mustapha and Andy,
>
>              If we are talking about manual configure (manually
>         installed labels),
>              this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe
>         network.
>
>              It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all
>         or a subset
>              of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm
>         I worked
>              with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the
>         mix of
>              signalling protocols we for several months did run our
>         network by
>              installing all labels manually, we never thought about that
>         as "static",
>              but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it.
>
>              What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit
>         different. The NMS
>              (centralized controller) is configured with a label space
>         per node to
>              be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate
>         labels to be
>              installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove
>         them and returns
>              them to the pool when the LSP is taken down.
>
>              I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels.
>         Dynamic as
>              they are installed and removed depending on the life time
>         of the LSPs.
>              Configured as it is done by the NMS.
>
>              Mustapha,
>
>              Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have.
>
>              /Loa
>
>              On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>                  Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to
>                  assignment of
>                  initial label and of any subsequent label change of an
>         LSP or a
>                  PW by
>                  configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual”
>                  configuration
>                  and the LSP or PW is referred to as static.
>
>                  That definition fits I believe what is being described in
>                  draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm.
>
>                  Regards,
>
>                  Mustapha.
>
>                  *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>]
>                  *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM
>                  *To:* Loa Andersson
>                  *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Nevil
>         Brownlee
>                  *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of
>         draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>                  Loa,
>
>                  I think the reference that you're looking for is
>         section 3.11 of
>                  RFC 5921.
>
>                  Cheers,
>
>                  Andy
>
>                  On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson
>         <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>>> wrote:
>
>                  Mustapha,
>
>                  That is still not a definition possible to refrence.
>
>                  I've always been a bit confused by the distinction between
>                  "static" and
>                  "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit
>         less so if
>                  we talk
>                  about LSPs.
>
>                  To me the term  "static" and "dynamic" seems to
>         indicate how
>                  long lived
>                  or how easy they are to change.
>
>                  If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove
>                  LSPs/labels
>                  with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still
>         "static"?
>
>                  I agree that there is a possible classification of
>         "configured
>                  LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels".
>
>                  In that terminology I'd say that
>         draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses
>                  configured labels.
>
>                  Would that terminology be acceptable for you?
>
>                  /Loa
>
>
>
>                  On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>                  Hi Loa,
>                  By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a
>         LSP or a
>                  PW by
>                  configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I
>         believe this is
>                  what is being described in this draft but let me know
>         if I am wrong.
>
>                  Regards,
>                  Mustapha.
>
>                  -----Original Message-----
>                  From: Loa Andersson [mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>>]
>                  Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM
>                  To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>>
>                  Cc: Nevil Brownlee
>                  Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of
>         draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>                  Mustapha,
>
>                  in line please.
>
>                  On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>                  Dear all,
>                  I was asked to review this draft which is intended to
>         be handled
>                  in the
>
>                  Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors.
>
>
>                  Members of this list can also provide comments to the
>         authors.
>                  Please
>                  copy the
>
>                  Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following
>         address:
>
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>>
>
>
>
>                  Regards,
>                  Mustapha.
>                  ----------------------------
>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>                  1. Overall comment:
>                  This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth
>         service can
>                  be deployed
>
>                  in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources
>         into two
>                  managed
>                  layers,
>                  referred to as strata. The  guaranteed service layer is
>         referred
>                  to as
>                  "Hard Pipe"
>                  stratum.
>
>
>                  The management of the resources and the placement of
>         the MPLS
>                  tunnels and
>
>                  services into the  "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed with a
>                  management
>                  system.
>                  Thus the transport and service labels are static but
>         this important
>                  information has
>                  not been stated upfront in the document.
>
>                  Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we
>         can refer to?
>
>                  /Loa
>                  Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned.
>         Furthermore, the
>                  reference
>                  to T-
>                  LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion.
>
>                       I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections be
>                  explicit about the
>
>                  framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that
>         is by
>                  means of a
>                  management system and static transport and service labels.
>
>
>                  In fact, I would think the document value would be in
>         describing
>                  more
>                  details of
>
>                  the framework including configuration aspects, resource
>         and service
>                  management
>                  including resilience. These aspects have not been
>         sufficiently
>                  addressed
>                  and the
>                  focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to
>         differentiate the
>                  two strata.
>
>
>                  2. Section 1.1 - Scope:
>                  As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the
>         document how
>                  a router
>                  protects
>
>                  the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal
>         IP/MPLS"
>                  stratum
>                  overbooks a
>                  link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed
>         service is not
>                  sufficient. The
>                  authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS
>         markings
>                  are used to
>                  differentiate the treatment across the strata.
>
>
>                  3. Section 3:
>                  If the document objective is to describe the framework
>         used,
>                  then this
>                  section
>
>                  should begin by explaining the initial configuration
>         performed
>                  by the
>                  NMS to lay
>                  the ground for the building of the two stratums. This
>         includes the
>                  partitioning of the
>                  links, the assignment of transport and service label
>         ranges in the
>                  routers, the
>                  overbooking strategy, etc.
>
>
>                  Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is
>         configured in
>                  the network
>
>                  using static transport labels and static service
>         labels. This should
>                  cover the
>                  placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6
>                  mentions MPLS-TP
>                  protection is used.
>
>
>                  Next, a description of how the transport LSP and
>         service are
>                  monitored for
>
>                  continuity and defects.
>
>
>                  Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and
>         what
>                  services
>                  are pre-
>
>                  empted or degraded should be described.
>
>                  ------------------------------------
>
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>
>
>                  --
>
>
>                  Loa Andersson                        email:
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>>
>                  Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
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>
>                  --
>
>
>                  Loa Andersson                        email:
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                  <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>>
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>                  <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
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>              --
>
>
>              Loa Andersson                        email:
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>              <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>              Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>              Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
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>
>
>     --
>
>
>     Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>     <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]