Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
"Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com> Sun, 03 May 2015 14:00 UTC
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 10:00:06 -0400
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Nevil Brownlee <rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
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Loa, It's both, basically any change to the network equipment from an NMS. Not much difference from "configured" or "installed", but to me the latter terms are more related to the long-term configuration, such as installing or removing interfaces, while provisioning is more short-term. Cheers, Andy On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote: > Andy, > > Tnx - I have a question about "provisioned". I think "provisioning" is > the activity both to install and remove labels, right? > > Does "provisioned" mean both also, or just install? > > /Loa > > On 2015-05-02 15:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > >> Loa, >> >> Sure, that works for me too. A good word to use instead of "installed" >> is "provisioned". >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> wrote: >> >> Andy, >> >> So you say that even though the labels in draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe >> are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", because that >> is >> how we defined them for MPLS-TP. >> >> Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems to be >> converging on: >> >> Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by >> configuration. >> >> I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", but for >> now >> that is not important. >> >> /Loa >> >> On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >> >> Loa, >> >> Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for >> MPLS-TP, as >> they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the >> routers >> (LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921: >> >> A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the >> support of a >> dynamic control plane. This may be either by direct >> configuration of >> the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> wrote: >> >> Mustapha and Andy, >> >> If we are talking about manual configure (manually >> installed labels), >> this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe >> network. >> >> It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all >> or a subset >> of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm >> I worked >> with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the >> mix of >> signalling protocols we for several months did run our >> network by >> installing all labels manually, we never thought about that >> as "static", >> but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it. >> >> What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit >> different. The NMS >> (centralized controller) is configured with a label space >> per node to >> be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate >> labels to be >> installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove >> them and returns >> them to the pool when the LSP is taken down. >> >> I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels. >> Dynamic as >> they are installed and removed depending on the life time >> of the LSPs. >> Configured as it is done by the NMS. >> >> Mustapha, >> >> Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have. >> >> /Loa >> >> On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote: >> >> Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to >> assignment of >> initial label and of any subsequent label change of an >> LSP or a >> PW by >> configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual” >> configuration >> and the LSP or PW is referred to as static. >> >> That definition fits I believe what is being described in >> draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mustapha. >> >> *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com >> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> >> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>] >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM >> *To:* Loa Andersson >> *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; Nevil >> Brownlee >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of >> draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 >> >> Loa, >> >> I think the reference that you're looking for is >> section 3.11 of >> RFC 5921. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Andy >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson >> <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>> wrote: >> >> Mustapha, >> >> That is still not a definition possible to refrence. >> >> I've always been a bit confused by the distinction >> between >> "static" and >> "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit >> less so if >> we talk >> about LSPs. >> >> To me the term "static" and "dynamic" seems to >> indicate how >> long lived >> or how easy they are to change. >> >> If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove >> LSPs/labels >> with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still >> "static"? >> >> I agree that there is a possible classification of >> "configured >> LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels". >> >> In that terminology I'd say that >> draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses >> configured labels. >> >> Would that terminology be acceptable for you? >> >> /Loa >> >> >> >> On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote: >> >> Hi Loa, >> By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a >> LSP or a >> PW by >> configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I >> believe this is >> what is being described in this draft but let me know >> if I am wrong. >> >> Regards, >> Mustapha. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>] >> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM >> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> >> Cc: Nevil Brownlee >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of >> draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 >> >> Mustapha, >> >> in line please. >> >> On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> I was asked to review this draft which is intended to >> be handled >> in the >> >> Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors. >> >> >> Members of this list can also provide comments to the >> authors. >> Please >> copy the >> >> Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following >> address: >> >> rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> >> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>> >> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org >> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org >> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>>> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> Mustapha. >> ---------------------------- >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 >> >> 1. Overall comment: >> This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth >> service can >> be deployed >> >> in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources >> into two >> managed >> layers, >> referred to as strata. The guaranteed service layer is >> referred >> to as >> "Hard Pipe" >> stratum. >> >> >> The management of the resources and the placement of >> the MPLS >> tunnels and >> >> services into the "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed >> with a >> management >> system. >> Thus the transport and service labels are static but >> this important >> information has >> not been stated upfront in the document. >> >> Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we >> can refer to? >> >> /Loa >> Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. >> Furthermore, the >> reference >> to T- >> LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion. >> >> I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections >> be >> explicit about the >> >> framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that >> is by >> means of a >> management system and static transport and service >> labels. >> >> >> In fact, I would think the document value would be in >> describing >> more >> details of >> >> the framework including configuration aspects, resource >> and service >> management >> including resilience. These aspects have not been >> sufficiently >> addressed >> and the >> focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to >> differentiate the >> two strata. >> >> >> 2. Section 1.1 - Scope: >> As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the >> document how >> a router >> protects >> >> the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal >> IP/MPLS" >> stratum >> overbooks a >> link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed >> service is not >> sufficient. The >> authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS >> markings >> are used to >> differentiate the treatment across the strata. >> >> >> 3. Section 3: >> If the document objective is to describe the framework >> used, >> then this >> section >> >> should begin by explaining the initial configuration >> performed >> by the >> NMS to lay >> the ground for the building of the two stratums. This >> includes the >> partitioning of the >> links, the assignment of transport and service label >> ranges in the >> routers, the >> overbooking strategy, etc. >> >> >> Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is >> configured in >> the network >> >> using static transport labels and static service >> labels. This should >> cover the >> placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6 >> mentions MPLS-TP >> protection is used. >> >> >> Next, a description of how the transport LSP and >> service are >> monitored for >> >> continuity and defects. >> >> >> Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and >> what >> services >> are pre- >> >> empted or degraded should be described. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto: >> mpls@ietf.org> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: >> loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 >> 21 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: >> loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 >> 21 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto: >> mpls@ietf.org> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: >> loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com >> >> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 >> 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> >> >> >> > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >
- [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Huub van Helvoort