Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

["Andrew G. Malis" <[e-mail]>]

Loa,

Sure, that works for me too. A good word to use instead of "installed" is
"provisioned".

Cheers,
Andy

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Andy,
>
> So you say that even though the labels in draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe
> are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", because that is
> how we defined them for MPLS-TP.
>
> Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems to be
> converging on:
>
> Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by
>                      configuration.
>
> I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", but for now
> that is not important.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>> Loa,
>>
>> Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for MPLS-TP, as
>> they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the routers
>> (LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921:
>>
>>     A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the support of a
>>     dynamic control plane.  This may be either by direct configuration of
>>     the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Mustapha and Andy,
>>
>>     If we are talking about manual configure (manually installed labels),
>>     this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe network.
>>
>>     It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all or a subset
>>     of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm I worked
>>     with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the mix of
>>     signalling protocols we for several months did run our network by
>>     installing all labels manually, we never thought about that as
>> "static",
>>     but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it.
>>
>>     What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit different. The NMS
>>     (centralized controller) is configured with a label space per node to
>>     be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate labels to be
>>     installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove them and
>> returns
>>     them to the pool when the LSP is taken down.
>>
>>     I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels. Dynamic as
>>     they are installed and removed depending on the life time of the LSPs.
>>     Configured as it is done by the NMS.
>>
>>     Mustapha,
>>
>>     Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have.
>>
>>     /Loa
>>
>>     On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>>
>>         Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to
>>         assignment of
>>         initial label and of any subsequent label change of an LSP or a
>>         PW by
>>         configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual”
>>         configuration
>>         and the LSP or PW is referred to as static.
>>
>>         That definition fits I believe what is being described in
>>         draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>
>>         Mustapha.
>>
>>         *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>]
>>         *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM
>>         *To:* Loa Andersson
>>         *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; Nevil Brownlee
>>         *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>>         Loa,
>>
>>         I think the reference that you're looking for is section 3.11 of
>>         RFC 5921.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         Andy
>>
>>         On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:
>>
>>         Mustapha,
>>
>>         That is still not a definition possible to refrence.
>>
>>         I've always been a bit confused by the distinction between
>>         "static" and
>>         "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit less so if
>>         we talk
>>         about LSPs.
>>
>>         To me the term  "static" and "dynamic" seems to indicate how
>>         long lived
>>         or how easy they are to change.
>>
>>         If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove
>>         LSPs/labels
>>         with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still "static"?
>>
>>         I agree that there is a possible classification of "configured
>>         LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels".
>>
>>         In that terminology I'd say that draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses
>>         configured labels.
>>
>>         Would that terminology be acceptable for you?
>>
>>         /Loa
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Loa,
>>         By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a LSP or a
>>         PW by
>>         configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I believe this
>> is
>>         what is being described in this draft but let me know if I am
>> wrong.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         Mustapha.
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>         From: Loa Andersson [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>]
>>         Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM
>>         To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:
>> [e-mail]>>
>>         Cc: Nevil Brownlee
>>         Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>>         Mustapha,
>>
>>         in line please.
>>
>>         On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>>
>>         Dear all,
>>         I was asked to review this draft which is intended to be handled
>>         in the
>>
>>         Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors.
>>
>>
>>         Members of this list can also provide comments to the authors.
>>         Please
>>         copy the
>>
>>         Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following address:
>>
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         Mustapha.
>>         ----------------------------
>>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>>         1. Overall comment:
>>         This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth service can
>>         be deployed
>>
>>         in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources into two
>>         managed
>>         layers,
>>         referred to as strata. The  guaranteed service layer is referred
>>         to as
>>         "Hard Pipe"
>>         stratum.
>>
>>
>>         The management of the resources and the placement of the MPLS
>>         tunnels and
>>
>>         services into the  "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed with a
>>         management
>>         system.
>>         Thus the transport and service labels are static but this
>> important
>>         information has
>>         not been stated upfront in the document.
>>
>>         Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we can refer
>> to?
>>
>>         /Loa
>>         Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. Furthermore, the
>>         reference
>>         to T-
>>         LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion.
>>
>>              I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections be
>>         explicit about the
>>
>>         framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that is by
>>         means of a
>>         management system and static transport and service labels.
>>
>>
>>         In fact, I would think the document value would be in describing
>>         more
>>         details of
>>
>>         the framework including configuration aspects, resource and
>> service
>>         management
>>         including resilience. These aspects have not been sufficiently
>>         addressed
>>         and the
>>         focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to differentiate the
>>         two strata.
>>
>>
>>         2. Section 1.1 - Scope:
>>         As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the document how
>>         a router
>>         protects
>>
>>         the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal IP/MPLS"
>>         stratum
>>         overbooks a
>>         link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed service is not
>>         sufficient. The
>>         authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS markings
>>         are used to
>>         differentiate the treatment across the strata.
>>
>>
>>         3. Section 3:
>>         If the document objective is to describe the framework used,
>>         then this
>>         section
>>
>>         should begin by explaining the initial configuration performed
>>         by the
>>         NMS to lay
>>         the ground for the building of the two stratums. This includes the
>>         partitioning of the
>>         links, the assignment of transport and service label ranges in the
>>         routers, the
>>         overbooking strategy, etc.
>>
>>
>>         Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is configured in
>>         the network
>>
>>         using static transport labels and static service labels. This
>> should
>>         cover the
>>         placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6
>>         mentions MPLS-TP
>>         protection is used.
>>
>>
>>         Next, a description of how the transport LSP and service are
>>         monitored for
>>
>>         continuity and defects.
>>
>>
>>         Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and what
>>         services
>>         are pre-
>>
>>         empted or degraded should be described.
>>
>>         ------------------------------------
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         mpls mailing list
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>>         --
>>
>>
>>         Loa Andersson                        email:
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>
>>
>>         Loa Andersson                        email:
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         mpls mailing list
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>>     --
>>
>>
>>     Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>     Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>     Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>>     <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
> Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>