Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

[Loa Andersson <[e-mail]>]

Andy,

So you say that even though the labels in draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe
are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", because that is
how we defined them for MPLS-TP.

Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems to be
converging on:

Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by
                      configuration.

I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", but for now
that is not important.

/Loa

On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Loa,
>
> Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for MPLS-TP, as
> they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the routers
> (LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921:
>
>     A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the support of a
>     dynamic control plane.  This may be either by direct configuration of
>     the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>     Mustapha and Andy,
>
>     If we are talking about manual configure (manually installed labels),
>     this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe network.
>
>     It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all or a subset
>     of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm I worked
>     with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the mix of
>     signalling protocols we for several months did run our network by
>     installing all labels manually, we never thought about that as "static",
>     but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it.
>
>     What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit different. The NMS
>     (centralized controller) is configured with a label space per node to
>     be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate labels to be
>     installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove them and returns
>     them to the pool when the LSP is taken down.
>
>     I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels. Dynamic as
>     they are installed and removed depending on the life time of the LSPs.
>     Configured as it is done by the NMS.
>
>     Mustapha,
>
>     Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have.
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>         Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to
>         assignment of
>         initial label and of any subsequent label change of an LSP or a
>         PW by
>         configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual”
>         configuration
>         and the LSP or PW is referred to as static.
>
>         That definition fits I believe what is being described in
>         draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Mustapha.
>
>         *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>]
>         *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM
>         *To:* Loa Andersson
>         *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; Nevil Brownlee
>         *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>         Loa,
>
>         I think the reference that you're looking for is section 3.11 of
>         RFC 5921.
>
>         Cheers,
>
>         Andy
>
>         On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:
>
>         Mustapha,
>
>         That is still not a definition possible to refrence.
>
>         I've always been a bit confused by the distinction between
>         "static" and
>         "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit less so if
>         we talk
>         about LSPs.
>
>         To me the term  "static" and "dynamic" seems to indicate how
>         long lived
>         or how easy they are to change.
>
>         If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove
>         LSPs/labels
>         with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still "static"?
>
>         I agree that there is a possible classification of "configured
>         LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels".
>
>         In that terminology I'd say that draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses
>         configured labels.
>
>         Would that terminology be acceptable for you?
>
>         /Loa
>
>
>
>         On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>         Hi Loa,
>         By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a LSP or a
>         PW by
>         configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I believe this is
>         what is being described in this draft but let me know if I am wrong.
>
>         Regards,
>         Mustapha.
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Loa Andersson [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>]
>         Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM
>         To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         Cc: Nevil Brownlee
>         Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>         Mustapha,
>
>         in line please.
>
>         On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>         Dear all,
>         I was asked to review this draft which is intended to be handled
>         in the
>
>         Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors.
>
>
>         Members of this list can also provide comments to the authors.
>         Please
>         copy the
>
>         Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following address:
>
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>
>
>         Regards,
>         Mustapha.
>         ----------------------------
>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>
>         1. Overall comment:
>         This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth service can
>         be deployed
>
>         in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources into two
>         managed
>         layers,
>         referred to as strata. The  guaranteed service layer is referred
>         to as
>         "Hard Pipe"
>         stratum.
>
>
>         The management of the resources and the placement of the MPLS
>         tunnels and
>
>         services into the  "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed with a
>         management
>         system.
>         Thus the transport and service labels are static but this important
>         information has
>         not been stated upfront in the document.
>
>         Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we can refer to?
>
>         /Loa
>         Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. Furthermore, the
>         reference
>         to T-
>         LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion.
>
>              I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections be
>         explicit about the
>
>         framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that is by
>         means of a
>         management system and static transport and service labels.
>
>
>         In fact, I would think the document value would be in describing
>         more
>         details of
>
>         the framework including configuration aspects, resource and service
>         management
>         including resilience. These aspects have not been sufficiently
>         addressed
>         and the
>         focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to differentiate the
>         two strata.
>
>
>         2. Section 1.1 - Scope:
>         As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the document how
>         a router
>         protects
>
>         the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal IP/MPLS"
>         stratum
>         overbooks a
>         link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed service is not
>         sufficient. The
>         authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS markings
>         are used to
>         differentiate the treatment across the strata.
>
>
>         3. Section 3:
>         If the document objective is to describe the framework used,
>         then this
>         section
>
>         should begin by explaining the initial configuration performed
>         by the
>         NMS to lay
>         the ground for the building of the two stratums. This includes the
>         partitioning of the
>         links, the assignment of transport and service label ranges in the
>         routers, the
>         overbooking strategy, etc.
>
>
>         Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is configured in
>         the network
>
>         using static transport labels and static service labels. This should
>         cover the
>         placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6
>         mentions MPLS-TP
>         protection is used.
>
>
>         Next, a description of how the transport LSP and service are
>         monitored for
>
>         continuity and defects.
>
>
>         Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and what
>         services
>         are pre-
>
>         empted or degraded should be described.
>
>         ------------------------------------
>
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>
>
>         --
>
>
>         Loa Andersson                        email:
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>
>
>         --
>
>
>         Loa Andersson                        email:
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>         Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>         <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>
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>
>     --
>
>
>     Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>     <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]