Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

["Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <[e-mail]>]

Andy and Loa,
I am good either way.

Mustapha.
Sent from my Blackberry!

From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 09:54 AM
To: Loa Andersson <[e-mail]>
Cc: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Nevil Brownlee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

Loa,

Sure, that works for me too. A good word to use instead of "installed" is "provisioned".

Cheers,
Andy

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Andy,

So you say that even though the labels in draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe
are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", because that is
how we defined them for MPLS-TP.

Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems to be
converging on:

Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by
                     configuration.

I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", but for now
that is not important.

/Loa

On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
Loa,

Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for MPLS-TP, as
they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the routers
(LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921:

    A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the support of a
    dynamic control plane.  This may be either by direct configuration of
    the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system.


Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
<mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:

    Mustapha and Andy,

    If we are talking about manual configure (manually installed labels),
    this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe network.

    It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all or a subset
    of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm I worked
    with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the mix of
    signalling protocols we for several months did run our network by
    installing all labels manually, we never thought about that as "static",
    but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it.

    What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit different. The NMS
    (centralized controller) is configured with a label space per node to
    be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate labels to be
    installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove them and returns
    them to the pool when the LSP is taken down.

    I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels. Dynamic as
    they are installed and removed depending on the life time of the LSPs.
    Configured as it is done by the NMS.

    Mustapha,

    Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have.

    /Loa

    On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:

        Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to
        assignment of
        initial label and of any subsequent label change of an LSP or a
        PW by
        configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual”
        configuration
        and the LSP or PW is referred to as static.

        That definition fits I believe what is being described in
        draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm.

        Regards,

        Mustapha.

        *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>]
        *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM
        *To:* Loa Andersson
        *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Nevil Brownlee
        *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

        Loa,

        I think the reference that you're looking for is section 3.11 of
        RFC 5921.

        Cheers,

        Andy

        On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>>> wrote:

        Mustapha,

        That is still not a definition possible to refrence.

        I've always been a bit confused by the distinction between
        "static" and
        "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit less so if
        we talk
        about LSPs.

        To me the term  "static" and "dynamic" seems to indicate how
        long lived
        or how easy they are to change.

        If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove
        LSPs/labels
        with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still "static"?

        I agree that there is a possible classification of "configured
        LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels".

        In that terminology I'd say that draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses
        configured labels.

        Would that terminology be acceptable for you?

        /Loa



        On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:

        Hi Loa,
        By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a LSP or a
        PW by
        configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I believe this is
        what is being described in this draft but let me know if I am wrong.

        Regards,
        Mustapha.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Loa Andersson [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>>]
        Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM
        To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>>
        Cc: Nevil Brownlee
        Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

        Mustapha,

        in line please.

        On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:

        Dear all,
        I was asked to review this draft which is intended to be handled
        in the

        Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors.


        Members of this list can also provide comments to the authors.
        Please
        copy the

        Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following address:

        [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
        <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>>



        Regards,
        Mustapha.
        ----------------------------
        https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

        1. Overall comment:
        This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth service can
        be deployed

        in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources into two
        managed
        layers,
        referred to as strata. The  guaranteed service layer is referred
        to as
        "Hard Pipe"
        stratum.


        The management of the resources and the placement of the MPLS
        tunnels and

        services into the  "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed with a
        management
        system.
        Thus the transport and service labels are static but this important
        information has
        not been stated upfront in the document.

        Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we can refer to?

        /Loa
        Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. Furthermore, the
        reference
        to T-
        LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion.

             I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections be
        explicit about the

        framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that is by
        means of a
        management system and static transport and service labels.


        In fact, I would think the document value would be in describing
        more
        details of

        the framework including configuration aspects, resource and service
        management
        including resilience. These aspects have not been sufficiently
        addressed
        and the
        focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to differentiate the
        two strata.


        2. Section 1.1 - Scope:
        As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the document how
        a router
        protects

        the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal IP/MPLS"
        stratum
        overbooks a
        link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed service is not
        sufficient. The
        authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS markings
        are used to
        differentiate the treatment across the strata.


        3. Section 3:
        If the document objective is to describe the framework used,
        then this
        section

        should begin by explaining the initial configuration performed
        by the
        NMS to lay
        the ground for the building of the two stratums. This includes the
        partitioning of the
        links, the assignment of transport and service label ranges in the
        routers, the
        overbooking strategy, etc.


        Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is configured in
        the network

        using static transport labels and static service labels. This should
        cover the
        placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6
        mentions MPLS-TP
        protection is used.


        Next, a description of how the transport LSP and service are
        monitored for

        continuity and defects.


        Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and what
        services
        are pre-

        empted or degraded should be described.

        ------------------------------------

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        --


        Loa Andersson                        email:
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        --


        Loa Andersson                        email:
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    --


    Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
    <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
    Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
    Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]<tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
    <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>



--


Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]<tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>