Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
Huub van Helvoort <huubatwork@gmail.com> Sun, 03 May 2015 16:41 UTC
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Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 18:41:31 +0200
From: Huub van Helvoort <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Nevil Brownlee <rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
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Hello Andy, You wrote: > It's both, basically any change to the network equipment from an NMS. I agree. > Not much difference from "configured" or "installed", but to me the > latter terms are more related to the long-term configuration, such as > installing or removing interfaces, while provisioning is more short-term. Indeed. A connection or service is provisioned. An interface or hardware unit is installed and/or configured. Best regards, Huub. > On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> wrote: > > Andy, > > Tnx - I have a question about "provisioned". I think "provisioning" is > the activity both to install and remove labels, right? > > Does "provisioned" mean both also, or just install? > > /Loa > > On 2015-05-02 15:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Loa, > > Sure, that works for me too. A good word to use instead of > "installed" > is "provisioned". > > Cheers, > Andy > > On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> wrote: > > Andy, > > So you say that even though the labels in > draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe > are dynamically allocated we should call them "static", > because that is > how we defined them for MPLS-TP. > > Could you accept the terminology that Mustapha and I seems > to be > converging on: > > Configured labels - labels that are assigned and reclaimed by > configuration. > > I think I prefer that we cahnge "assigned" for "installed", > but for now > that is not important. > > /Loa > > On 2015-05-01 15:36, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Loa, > > Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for > MPLS-TP, as > they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane > on the > routers > (LDP or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921: > > A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the > support of a > dynamic control plane. This may be either by direct > configuration of > the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system. > > > Cheers, > Andy > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson > <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>> wrote: > > Mustapha and Andy, > > If we are talking about manual configure (manually > installed labels), > this is not what is not what is going on in the > hard-pipe > network. > > It is of course possible to run any MPLS network > with all > or a subset > of the labels manually installed. We did that in > 1999 whenm > I worked > with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and > decision on the > mix of > signalling protocols we for several months did run our > network by > installing all labels manually, we never thought > about that > as "static", > but I could live with that terminology if we want > to use it. > > What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit > different. The NMS > (centralized controller) is configured with a > label space > per node to > be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then > allocate > labels to be > installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and > remove > them and returns > them to the pool when the LSP is taken down. > > I tend to think about this as dynamic configured > labels. > Dynamic as > they are installed and removed depending on the > life time > of the LSPs. > Configured as it is done by the NMS. > > Mustapha, > > Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have. > > /Loa > > On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) > wrote: > > Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was > referring to > assignment of > initial label and of any subsequent label > change of an > LSP or a > PW by > configuration. This is sometimes referred to > as “manual” > configuration > and the LSP or PW is referred to as static. > > That definition fits I believe what is being > described in > draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can > confirm. > > Regards, > > Mustapha. > > *From:*Andrew G. Malis > [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> > <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> > <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com > <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com > <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>>] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM > *To:* Loa Andersson > *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); > mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>; Nevil > Brownlee > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of > draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 > > Loa, > > I think the reference that you're looking for is > section 3.11 of > RFC 5921. > > Cheers, > > Andy > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson > <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>>> wrote: > > Mustapha, > > That is still not a definition possible to > refrence. > > I've always been a bit confused by the > distinction between > "static" and > "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, > a bit > less so if > we talk > about LSPs. > > To me the term "static" and "dynamic" seems to > indicate how > long lived > or how easy they are to change. > > If an NMS or any centralized controller instal > and remove > LSPs/labels > with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still > "static"? > > I agree that there is a possible classification of > "configured > LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels". > > In that terminology I'd say that > draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses > configured labels. > > Would that terminology be acceptable for you? > > /Loa > > > > On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha > (Mustapha) wrote: > > Hi Loa, > By static label, I meant a label which is > assigned to a > LSP or a > PW by > configuration and not by a control plane > protocol. I > believe this is > what is being described in this draft but let > me know > if I am wrong. > > Regards, > Mustapha. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>>] > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); > mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>> > Cc: Nevil Brownlee > Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of > draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 > > Mustapha, > > in line please. > > On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha > (Mustapha) wrote: > > Dear all, > I was asked to review this draft which is > intended to > be handled > in the > > Independent Stream. Below are my comments to > the authors. > > > Members of this list can also provide comments > to the > authors. > Please > copy the > > Independent Submission Editorial Board at the > following > address: > > rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>> > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>>> > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>> <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org> > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org > <mailto:rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>>>> > > > > Regards, > Mustapha. > ---------------------------- > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 > > 1. Overall comment: > This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth > service can > be deployed > > in a MPLS network by partitioning the network > resources > into two > managed > layers, > referred to as strata. The guaranteed service > layer is > referred > to as > "Hard Pipe" > stratum. > > > The management of the resources and the > placement of > the MPLS > tunnels and > > services into the "Hard Pipe" stratum are > performed with a > management > system. > Thus the transport and service labels are > static but > this important > information has > not been stated upfront in the document. > > Do you have a a definition of "static labels" > that we > can refer to? > > /Loa > Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. > Furthermore, the > reference > to T- > LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the > confusion. > > I propose that the Introduction and Scope > sections be > explicit about the > > framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" > stratum, that > is by > means of a > management system and static transport and > service labels. > > > In fact, I would think the document value > would be in > describing > more > details of > > the framework including configuration aspects, > resource > and service > management > including resilience. These aspects have not been > sufficiently > addressed > and the > focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to > differentiate the > two strata. > > > 2. Section 1.1 - Scope: > As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the > document how > a router > protects > > the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the > "Normal > IP/MPLS" > stratum > overbooks a > link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed > service is not > sufficient. The > authors should describe if LSP pre-emption > and/or QoS > markings > are used to > differentiate the treatment across the strata. > > > 3. Section 3: > If the document objective is to describe the > framework > used, > then this > section > > should begin by explaining the initial > configuration > performed > by the > NMS to lay > the ground for the building of the two > stratums. This > includes the > partitioning of the > links, the assignment of transport and service > label > ranges in the > routers, the > overbooking strategy, etc. > > > Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is > configured in > the network > > using static transport labels and static service > labels. This should > cover the > placement of the working and backup paths > since Section 6 > mentions MPLS-TP > protection is used. > > > Next, a description of how the transport LSP and > service are > monitored for > > continuity and defects. > > > Finally, the behavior when resources are > overbooked and > what > services > are pre- > > empted or degraded should be described. > > ------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: > loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>>> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>> > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: > +46 739 81 > 21 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: > loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>>> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>> > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: > +46 739 81 > 21 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> > <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: > loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>>> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> <mailto:loa@pi.nu > <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>> > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 > 739 81 21 > 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: > loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > <mailto:loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>> > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 > 64 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu> > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样
- [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-… Huub van Helvoort