Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01

["Andrew G. Malis" <[e-mail]>]

Loa,

Those are exactly "static" labels as we've defined them for MPLS-TP, as
they aren't being installed by a dynamic control plane on the routers (LDP
or RSVP-TE). See the text in section 3.11 of RFC 5921:

   A PW or LSP may be statically configured without the support of a
   dynamic control plane.  This may be either by direct configuration of
   the PEs/LSRs or via a network management system.


Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Mustapha and Andy,
>
> If we are talking about manual configure (manually installed labels),
> this is not what is not what is going on in the hard-pipe network.
>
> It is of course possible to run any MPLS network with all or a subset
> of the labels manually installed. We did that in 1999 whenm I worked
> with a Swedish operator. Awaiting tests and decision on the mix of
> signalling protocols we for several months did run our network by
> installing all labels manually, we never thought about that as "static",
> but I could live with that terminology if we want to use it.
>
> What is going on in the hard-pipe network is a bit different. The NMS
> (centralized controller) is configured with a label space per node to
> be used for the hard-pipe stratum. The NMS then allocate labels to be
> installed on the nodes as a LSP is requested and remove them and returns
> them to the pool when the LSP is taken down.
>
> I tend to think about this as dynamic configured labels. Dynamic as
> they are installed and removed depending on the life time of the LSPs.
> Configured as it is done by the NMS.
>
> Mustapha,
>
> Would "configured labels" cover the concerns you have.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2015-04-30 15:42, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>
>> Thanks Andy for the reference. Indeed, I was referring to assignment of
>> initial label and of any subsequent label change of an LSP or a PW by
>> configuration. This is sometimes referred to as “manual” configuration
>> and the LSP or PW is referred to as static.
>>
>> That definition fits I believe what is being described in
>> draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01 but Loa can confirm.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mustapha.
>>
>> *From:*Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:52 AM
>> *To:* Loa Andersson
>> *Cc:* Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail]; Nevil Brownlee
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>> Loa,
>>
>> I think the reference that you're looking for is section 3.11 of RFC 5921.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Loa Andersson <[e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>> Mustapha,
>>
>> That is still not a definition possible to refrence.
>>
>> I've always been a bit confused by the distinction between "static" and
>> "dynamic", especially when it comes to labels, a bit less so if we talk
>> about LSPs.
>>
>> To me the term  "static" and "dynamic" seems to indicate how long lived
>> or how easy they are to change.
>>
>> If an NMS or any centralized controller instal and remove LSPs/labels
>> with the same frequency as e.g. LDP are they still "static"?
>>
>> I agree that there is a possible classification of "configured
>> LSPs/labels" vs. "signaled LSPs/labels".
>>
>> In that terminology I'd say that draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe uses
>> configured labels.
>>
>> Would that terminology be acceptable for you?
>>
>> /Loa
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-04-29 19:26, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Loa,
>> By static label, I meant a label which is assigned to a LSP or a PW by
>> configuration and not by a control plane protocol. I believe this is
>> what is being described in this draft but let me know if I am wrong.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mustapha.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:21 AM
>> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Cc: Nevil Brownlee
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>> Mustapha,
>>
>> in line please.
>>
>> On 2015-04-28 18:01, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I was asked to review this draft which is intended to be handled in the
>>
>> Independent Stream. Below are my comments to the authors.
>>
>>
>> Members of this list can also provide comments to the authors. Please
>> copy the
>>
>> Independent Submission Editorial Board at the following address:
>>
>> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mustapha.
>> ----------------------------
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe-01
>>
>> 1. Overall comment:
>> This document describes how a guaranteed bandwidth service can be deployed
>>
>> in a MPLS network by partitioning the network resources into two managed
>> layers,
>> referred to as strata. The  guaranteed service layer is referred to as
>> "Hard Pipe"
>> stratum.
>>
>>
>> The management of the resources and the placement of the MPLS tunnels and
>>
>> services into the  "Hard Pipe" stratum are performed with a management
>> system.
>> Thus the transport and service labels are static but this important
>> information has
>> not been stated upfront in the document.
>>
>> Do you have a a definition of "static labels" that we can refer to?
>>
>> /Loa
>> Only in section 6 that MPLS-TP was mentioned. Furthermore, the reference
>> to T-
>> LDP signaled labels in Section 3 adds to the confusion.
>>
>>     I propose that the Introduction and Scope sections be explicit about
>> the
>>
>> framework used to achieve the "Hard Pipe" stratum, that is by means of a
>> management system and static transport and service labels.
>>
>>
>> In fact, I would think the document value would be in describing more
>> details of
>>
>> the framework including configuration aspects, resource and service
>> management
>> including resilience. These aspects have not been sufficiently addressed
>> and the
>> focus was more on how to use MPLS labels to differentiate the two strata.
>>
>>
>> 2. Section 1.1 - Scope:
>> As part of the second bullet, I cannot find in the document how a router
>> protects
>>
>> the traffic of the "Hard Pipe" stratum if the "Normal IP/MPLS" stratum
>> overbooks a
>> link. Having a separate label for the guaranteed service is not
>> sufficient. The
>> authors should describe if LSP pre-emption and/or QoS markings are used to
>> differentiate the treatment across the strata.
>>
>>
>> 3. Section 3:
>> If the document objective is to describe the framework used, then this
>> section
>>
>> should begin by explaining the initial configuration performed by the
>> NMS to lay
>> the ground for the building of the two stratums. This includes the
>> partitioning of the
>> links, the assignment of transport and service label ranges in the
>> routers, the
>> overbooking strategy, etc.
>>
>>
>> Then, you can discuss how a guaranteed service is configured in the
>> network
>>
>> using static transport labels and static service labels. This should
>> cover the
>> placement of the working and backup paths since Section 6 mentions MPLS-TP
>> protection is used.
>>
>>
>> Next, a description of how the transport LSP and service are monitored for
>>
>> continuity and defects.
>>
>>
>> Finally, the behavior when resources are overbooked and what services
>> are pre-
>>
>> empted or degraded should be described.
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>> <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>
>>
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>>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
> Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: [phone]
>