Re: [NGO] external module properties
"David Harrington" <ietfdbh@comcast.net> Mon, 28 April 2008 17:28 UTC
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From: David Harrington <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
To: 'Andy Bierman' <ietf@andybierman.com>, 'NETCONF Goes On' <ngo@ietf.org>
References: <48137444.6070802@andybierman.com><20080426203103.GA22324@elstar.local><4813A0EC.50209@andybierman.com><20080427061550.GB22643@elstar.local><5D258F3C-D164-4759-B743-45B33CEF2A6E@jdscons.com><4814A0A1.4040507@andybierman.com><20080428080625.GA23300@elstar.local> <4815D8DB.3040301@andybierman.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:27:59 -0400
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Subject: Re: [NGO] external module properties
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Hi, It is important for an NMS to be able to tell which version of a data model is supported by a managed element, so when it makes changes to a configuration, it can make changes appropriate to the version supported. On a side note, keep in mind that some managed elements may have multiple components, such as blades in a chassis, and the versions supported might differ, so a Netconf server might also need to know which version to use to perform validation. dbh > -----Original Message----- > From: ngo-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ngo-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:02 AM > To: Andy Bierman; Jon Saperia; NETCONF Goes On > Subject: Re: [NGO] external module properties > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 08:49:53AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> My point is that we need to thinking more holistically about the > >> entire management system, which includes problems such as > human factors > >> and module life-cycle. > > > > A data modeling language specification is the wrong place to address > > human factors. > > Really? I thought YANG existed to provide the human-friendly > data modeling > interface that XSD and DSDL cannot provide. It seems to me > human factors > are critical to CM. Configuration errors are a big problem in real > networks. Providing an API and operational environment which is > resistant to human-introduced errors is a very high priority to me. > > > > >> We tried the 'blinders-on' approach with SMING/EOS and that didn't > >> work out so well. Focusing on the DML and ignoring the > protocol (or > >> vice versa) leads to incomplete or broken solutions. > > > > YANG is NETCONF very specific; it is by its very design a domain > > specific language for NETCONF data models and not comparable to > > SMING/EOS. > > > I think there are plenty of similarities and lessons to be learned > from SMING and EOS. I believe you wrote an RFC on the subject. ;-) > The YANG and 'Why YANG?' drafts cite the SMIng language > as the starting point for YANG. > > > > > >> Of course the namespace URI is mandatory, because it is needed > >> to properly implement the NETCONF protocol. The 'YANG philosphy' > >> (whatever that is) has nothing to do with it. Likewise, the > >> revision date is needed to properly implement NETCONF applications. > > > > There is a fine distinction here between a language definition their > > implementations and the usage of a language in a larger context. For > > me, a missing revision statement is something I like to generate a > > warning for but it is not an error since NETCONF continues > to function > > without the revision information. > > > > Note that I am not concerned about this particular case so > much; I am > > concerned the logic behind. The SMI has been full of CLRs > in order to > > make this a better world and with YANG we tried to get over this and > > we tried to reduce CLRs to a minimum, leaving the specification of > > CLRs to CLR documents (called coding styles in the software > world and > > guidelines in this space). > > > > I disagree. > This is a known problem in XML and CM, which needs to be addressed. > Should we standardize on the namespace URI as the version ID? > I hope not. IMO, we need a standard version field that can be > retrieved with the the schema-discovery DM, and is deterministically > derived from the YANG module (or explicitly entered, like > LAST-UPDATED). > > IMO, it is a bad idea to mix modules with and without versions. > The namespace-stmt is mandatory because YANG is forcing good > XML usage. > Forcing the use of a version ID for good XML usage is no different. > > > >> YANG is not decoupled from NETCONF, and NETCONF is not decoupled > >> from the actual CM problem space. One needs to consider > that sometimes > >> CLRs are really CBRs, and important for real interoperability. > > > > Which one of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBR> do you mean? I guess > > you mean the "Comic_Book_Resources". ;-) > > > > Not Constant Bit Rate either. > > Crappy Big Rule. > > > /js > > > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > NGO mailing list > NGO@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ngo > _______________________________________________ NGO mailing list NGO@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ngo
- [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Jon Saperia
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties David Harrington
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Wes Hardaker
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Randy Presuhn
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Andy Bierman
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Phil Shafer
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [NGO] external module properties Martin Bjorklund