[Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] NTPv5 Loop Detection without Stratum

Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de> Tue, 30 August 2022 13:22 UTC

Return-Path: <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15287C1524BF for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 06:22:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lhbq2qlgMXHD for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 06:22:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx2.uni-regensburg.de (mx2.uni-regensburg.de [IPv6:2001:638:a05:137:165:0:3:bdf8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7198CC1524C0 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 06:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx2.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 651CB600005C for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:22:09 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx2.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495DE600005B for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:22:05 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:22:06 +0200
Message-Id: <630E0EFC020000A10004D2F0@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.4.1
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:22:04 +0200
From: Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
To: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>, mayer@pdmconsulting.net, mlichvar@redhat.com
Cc: "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>
References: <DA1F1664-8A84-4197-844A-CA7E8DAA36B8@meinberg.de> <6305BCFE020000A10004CA27@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <69f413e8-793e-fc9d-849f-6c5971bd2e90@pdmconsulting.net>
In-Reply-To: <69f413e8-793e-fc9d-849f-6c5971bd2e90@pdmconsulting.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/8YmjW3iCBSXkPi3e4VU2I6VyNAE>
Subject: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] NTPv5 Loop Detection without Stratum
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Time Protocol <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:22:21 -0000

>>> Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net> schrieb am 30.08.2022 um 00:37 in
Nachricht <69f413e8-793e-fc9d-849f-6c5971bd2e90@pdmconsulting.net>:

> On 8/24/22 1:54 AM, Ulrich Windl wrote:
>>>>> Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de> schrieb am 23.08.2022 um 12:21
>> in
>> Nachricht <DA1F1664-8A84-4197-844A-CA7E8DAA36B8@meinberg.de>:
>>> One way of avoiding/detecting loops:
>>> - upon startup, an NTPv5 instance creates a random 64bit ID
>>> - we add a loop detection EF that can include n IDs (or we use n EFs)
>>> - a stratum one server, when ask for his "sync trace", responds with only
>>> his ID
>> Considering that a stratum-1 server may have more than one reference clock
>> (say m) to pick, I think a stratum-1 server should actually prepare one ID 
> per
>> reference clock. It's a design issue whether to return one ID that is 
> different
>> for each clock (see below), or two IDs (server's + clock's).
> 
> No need. When it's a stratum-1 server the referenceID in the packet 
> indicates the clock being used. See RFC5905 Figure 12.

But if the Reference ID for all GPS clocks would be "GPS ", wouldn't he new "loop avoidance" algorithm consider all those to be the same source, thus a loop? So we could not have redundant GPS sources any more???

Regards,
Ulrich
...