IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Quic: the Elephant in the Room

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Wed, 21 April 2021 01:38 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564603A118D for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.749
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ZxLFOLeaWfz for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0CA13A118B for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id 20so16764085pll.7 for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=QGVDTw3uQNp0PvaHU+x+toLq6PLStqQRYCIRHd720tM=; b=ScZg5iqiFQ+4oT0bwqIe6PEhcEWKUak3xO3nIindVClkLNakZH0aettuRTBm5wrHL7 kZArMjyVDpDDF4YIaoiqjLLMwhTPjUK0aLhEJ7Gg442UCdIncMNFsCic6imeZIIo3Pm3 +CU0yw1AFw3EgKKubzm00lUaKNsjNSyoUp7Kl06OKivfbektnBI3tjVcE3N9EKvtrCno VqVKEtWV2doRkR87uLIX+sbjWLZJL3466ovxvXJIp6J6WEjO5b55NKVlVBAETmT373JI ypGvvuXXQcnoRcPxKLbEQTK1K1uTpvvgkmWUxgZXcBF6VvgejCBmFtUQq9LlViUDBZ+C 8sVA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=QGVDTw3uQNp0PvaHU+x+toLq6PLStqQRYCIRHd720tM=; b=uinzBmynoTW0F4eg4qKbMUJe6W21dGT9pI5RRvW8/W5cJQrVxSE75i5+jhpBukrUMO 73CxoBPvXTWKc9fao2pvWIaet94SPvpMxfU+srSD1A2bvPo0FggQpP2uTGSfM/MlzE7a gi6FbLiGBr1c5ygS/SJ9sQFUWaDxXaPMw1mNRwLGlR4DJ3OUATkPqah6m2qDdcNyw2sr +ElhH0AIs8iuU9wX+vcq+N6sP5cOFmfamr00hYZ9lMk3H0DtYnN8Ek7dOSPFWt91a1+u wYsZPl40OCh8qs0ACzzADL6+wLjoXMHu+l5BZplmjPScvX/rRm35T2RT9+SvAlPMv048 AGpg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OolJ76aSof7+07vaYe2urtHQdwzvGHAewVIiOZiY+m7fGB2PP kIv8jr7Hbk+8/Z9kDnLCpFEGnw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGHhEDkS0Q6DhvoNgCXdTqZGjJk5S3vUX0Cl2BBeuuod+KLrCnjkaP7CkKD/UOHpKiQ/GKog==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7c17:b029:ec:bfde:23e2 with SMTP id x23-20020a1709027c17b02900ecbfde23e2mr3759083pll.33.1618969131394; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-43-245.volcanocom.com. [107.182.43.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v8sm216814pfu.205.2021.04.20.18.38.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Quic: the Elephant in the Room
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
References: <311e3e67-2e87-1650-22b3-614378fbf88f@mtcc.com> <CADdTf+jRMfNo1EiFBj-fOeZJkKM2TCvN9yJFEmJEVcZj5JMD_Q@mail.gmail.com> <e5856173-5c7a-1f2b-3be0-b2a155786ff8@mtcc.com> <CALGR9oY0-aVT+Hv0gj45pxwH7zxTw=TVpQGqCVC2NFCa+y16JA@mail.gmail.com> <4191ed66-11e4-7ac6-bd0d-d4713dd0873b@mtcc.com> <CAPDSy+6rWkgB49RKThFCsBLdMjquBBX9=h-Mz9AMAknu=2KhEA@mail.gmail.com> <2c400bd6-30cf-c46f-6e87-9ca62ef25ed2@mtcc.com> <CAPDSy+55oPNi8DBkQO+XGyrBMMB4kMLtVnDVU75Myh116jnwbw@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBPDDLbOkVDLQy0JkOBDrOXop6RORQ5YQYdKxJ4QLg+6LQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwiDA-DWCPwB+N-dxTs-cuQrtaKb=_wtc-CP=Ckn4_sg7g@mail.gmail.com> <9b21b764-bdd4-7d1c-a89f-b7d2e947fdb8@mtcc.com> <CABcZeBNW3zShZU=HrQA=oKr82UeNTQEr3P=9GkpnFgzaJoG19A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <dc090042-db7f-45bd-f715-2790b64d2594@mtcc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:38:49 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBNW3zShZU=HrQA=oKr82UeNTQEr3P=9GkpnFgzaJoG19A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------85EF59639801F479A2A8DE12"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/SBfM9o7rY78watTbZ_tmIhX98HE>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 01:38:57 -0000

On 4/20/21 6:27 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> Having read the thread, I think the chairs handled this appropriately. 
> You made a suggestion, several people, most notably David Schinazi 
> told you why they didn't think that it was an improvement, and you 
> responded by complaining that David didn't want to run an experiment 
> that he didn't see value in. Lucas politely asked you to take it 
> elsewhere. With that said, if you in fact think that Lucas behaved 
> inappropriately, I encourage you to take it up with the ADs.
>
This was predictable from the IETF list. It has acted out exactly as 
expected. IETF fiefdoms are a real problem.

Mike

PSL STIR is the worst standard i've ever seen.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email