Re: [rtcweb] [tram] [RTCWEB] [TRAM] Protesting: Requesting TRAM Charter Clarification regardig Milestone 3: TURN server auto-discovery mechanism for enterprise and ISPs

Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> Wed, 26 February 2014 01:12 UTC

Return-Path: <barryleiba@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C551A0822; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.278
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W3SlUKD4UVDH; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qa0-x230.google.com (mail-qa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD351A0283; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id o15so1414883qap.35 for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:20 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=m52AtfZmXJfdLbH8hMpd0VTqlEjehN8vxgrzWGiG0m4=; b=hERUOWuLALRwJXWoEt4PZlXuRm/s7eb+geJOWP3HtDiva7NHuxlEpri8ZJe0AtfChM jA+eL9OkToUavWWMhshErE0N9NjjSBfsfkevFJWbHZbHzeCN9MKMplOBIhj3eLqiZMdr lbwBCk813OOGnSl80GYs504urxA8ZfrN2OpFOHl8MzF/ilLKI8NHtJdfZVMHGZ4XAe6t 3TODPaYwc3VHYdA+xQRCVWp43ZRJ4ZE0Zx2QZBC1nZnYG9ld27bmRoPmat4nq5chJtiq F78DqRjvxARTO6jICefZ7c1P5gOpoRcsGfZTNf4o48fXUwjYKq/323MkWBWkJkMFBW3T PM2g==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.140.93.111 with SMTP id c102mr3894557qge.53.1393377140691; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com
Received: by 10.224.26.11 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:20 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AA208926-C949-4580-B20B-DCF172D3C21B@cisco.com>
References: <20140214030712.30321.21888.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAKhHsXGzA=ZTFGTK7ht9hQbfG70iqKrDtxrZCdQNNMzBYZCk8A@mail.gmail.com> <530604ea.c5bf440a.5cfd.ffffde18SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <CAKhHsXGsp6ma6Ko9op+YFRqSGM_Ex-jFo_fjz69rN0SEHfNK2A@mail.gmail.com> <CALDtMrKb3_38Rs0vaGnpEvNvTYz8YUTo89STvLJNXfkfdipDSQ@mail.gmail.com> <93BEDDC39A54294B9E78C7860516FA4724AA4422@AZ-US1EXMB06.global.avaya.com> <B7FA2629-6D48-4569-BB62-56395C3EE4BC@cisco.com> <AA208926-C949-4580-B20B-DCF172D3C21B@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:12:20 -0800
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 51AuCbqYBAnnfdQ7jMCJq3rhkKs
Message-ID: <CALaySJK+SdamVrbFk_+NTJDLDX7hwH3w3G-L4MBtxR70ZHPu2w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" <fluffy@cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/1i2TLt4Rsn7bXM2C6Y1ma2UvOgM
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 00:36:35 -0800
Cc: "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, Spencer Dawkins <spencer@wonderhamster.org>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>, IESG IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] [tram] [RTCWEB] [TRAM] Protesting: Requesting TRAM Charter Clarification regardig Milestone 3: TURN server auto-discovery mechanism for enterprise and ISPs
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:12:23 -0000

> That said, I think you have pointed out this charter is abysmally
> vague - it does not say what the WG is not going to do. If I
> decided to do BGP for routing updates over TURN it would be
> within the scope of this charter.

Cullen, is it your opinion that a working group is always free to do
anything that's not explicitly forbidden in its charter?

I think that a working group is limited to doing what *is* in its
charter, and we sometimes explicitly forbid things for emphasis.

The TRAM charter says this:

   The work will include the addition of DTLS
   as an additional transport, authentication mechanisms, and
   extensions to TURN and STUN.

I don't think that would support, for example, BGP over TURN.

Barry