Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism (Re: Summary of ICE discussion)
Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@jdrosen.net> Tue, 11 October 2011 03:13 UTC
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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:13:00 -0400
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@jdrosen.net>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism (Re: Summary of ICE discussion)
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Security issues aside, the proposed solution does not work with existing SIP/RTP implementations. The main drawback of the ICE solution is that it won't work with deployed equipment. I see little benefit in specifying another solution which does not fix the main limitation we have with ICE. -Jonathan R. On 10/10/2011 8:11 PM, Randell Jesup wrote: > On 10/10/2011 7:04 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Harald >> Alvestrand<harald@alvestrand.no> wrote: >>> Changing the subject to keep threads separate.... >>> >>> On 10/09/2011 12:00 PM, sebastien.cubaud@orange.com wrote: >>>> Here are the steps I foresee before allowing the establishment of a >>>> media >>>> session: >>>> >>>> - Let's consider A (a RTC-Web compliant browser) connected to server >>>> S and >>>> wishing to share real-time media with destination B (potentially a SIP >>>> endpoint or a browser) >>>> - A& B learn via the signalling channel the triple @IP, transport proto >>>> and associated listening port of the remote media >>>> - A sends a few RTP packets to B (3 as in RFC 2833/4733 or more?).- >>>> This >>>> would allow the mechanism to resist against packet loss -. The >>>> format of such >>>> packets are to be discussed >>>> - Assuming B receives these packets, it then sends via the signalling >>>> channel an information from the media path unknown from S (i.e. not >>>> accessible via >>>> JS). >>>> I propose to use the min of the sequence number of the RTP packets >>>> received (which is random per RFC 3550) >>> >>> The sequence number is a 16-bit number, so there are 16 bits of >>> randomness >>> to play with here. >>> An attack based on just returning a random number will succeed 1 out of >>> 65.536 times; if any of the 3 packets' sequence numbers are >>> acceptable, it >>> will succeed 1 out of 21.845 times. > > If you use the sequence number and the timestamp, you have 48 bits of > entropy... > > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. SkypeID: jdrosen Skype Chief Technology Strategist jdrosen@skype.net http://www.skype.com jdrosen@jdrosen.net http://www.jdrosen.net
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Randell Jesup
- [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Cary Bran (cbran)
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Paul Hoffman
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion sebastien.cubaud
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Iñaki Baz Castillo
- [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism (Re… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… sebastien.cubaud
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion sebastien.cubaud
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… sebastien.cubaud
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] Sebastien Cubaud's non-ICE mechanism… sebastien.cubaud
- Re: [rtcweb] Summary of ICE discussion sebastien.cubaud