Re: [rtcweb] Video resolution SHOULDs (Re: resolutions in draft-cbran-rtcweb-codec-01)

Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Thu, 17 November 2011 10:10 UTC

Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACE121F9B29 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:10:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -110.523
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x6lv17G91Xev for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:10:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F85D21F8C14 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:10:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D46939E176; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:10:18 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jMl+rjNhygiV; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:10:17 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [130.129.22.244] (dhcp-16f4.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.244]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4646439E0D4; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:10:15 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <4EC4DD84.8030202@alvestrand.no>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:10:12 +0800
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110921 Thunderbird/3.1.15
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
References: <CAEAF771.33E5D%stewe@stewe.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAEAF771.33E5D%stewe@stewe.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070808090107000809010901"
Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video resolution SHOULDs (Re: resolutions in draft-cbran-rtcweb-codec-01)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:10:43 -0000

On 11/17/2011 05:54 PM, Stephan Wenger wrote:
> The highlighted part of Harald's suggestion below
>
>        SHOULD support resolutions of 1920x1080, 1280x720, 720x480,
>     1024x768,
>
>           800x600, 640x480, 640 x 360 , 320x240* **if these
>     resolutions can be displayed on the target device*
>
>
> seems sensible.  However, I have another issue.  I don't believe that 
> naming specific resolutions is advisable.  In a system where the 
> rendering side has almost undefined picture properties because they 
> are typically rendered in "windows", it IMO does not make much sense 
> to limit yourself to certain aspect ratios, picture sizes etc., even 
> if those correspond to today's preferred sensor resolutions (or 
> integer fractions thereof).  Resampling an input signal is cheap 
> nowadays (at least compared to the encoding itself), and cropping is 
> even cheaper.
> I would instead recommend naming one single MUST resolution (as the 
> draft does) to ensure minimum interoperability, and otherwise 
> negotiate a processing rate in macro blocks per second (or 
> equivalent), with fixed constraints around the aspect ratio.
For requirements, I prefer to list specifics, because they're testable.

One of my colleagues had a failing test the other day because he'd 
specified a picture height of 94 pixels - he did not know that his 
encoders only supported pixel counts that were multiples of 8.

Of course a device will not fail to interoperate just because it 
supports decoding more resolutions than those that are required.

BTW, I believe 640x360 is a 16:9 aspect ratio, so handling both 16:9 and 
4:3 seems to be a SHOULD based on this resolution list. I assume that's 
intentional.