Re: [sipcore] Location Conveyance -04 submitted, here's the changes

["James M. Polk" <[e-mail]>]

Keith

I know you know this, but I'm going to say it anyway for those that don't.

Having multiple locations is different that having multiple locationValues.

The text has limited all locations to be about a single target (that 
was first introduced in -03).

Within a PIDF-LO, there can be multiple locations (this has always 
been allowed).

Having multiple locationValues, there is most likely going to be 
multiple PIDF-LOs.

The Text in version -03 said 1 PIDF-LO, that can have multiple 
locations describing where the same target is.

I want to make sure whether you are or you are not asking for 
multiple locationValues which likely lead to multiple PIDF-LOs. Is 
that what you really are after?  Most of the previous to version -03 
versions of Location-conveyance allowed multiple locationValues. The 
Jon's preso in Anaheim, which I am well away you were not a fan of, 
suggested that we can remove a LOT of complexity within this doc if 
we took away the ability to have multiple locationValues (and he's 
right on that account).  But this flew in the face of Richard's 
rough-loc ID that called for the ability multiple locationValues, 
with each having a different granularity of the same Target (one 
coarse and one highly accurate). rev -04, the current version, 
allowed zero, one or two locationValues just to satisfy this second 
type of location (i.e., the rough-loc locationValue). Richard agree 
to allow us in -04 state this isn't a good idea, and I don't believe 
he's asking us to change that part today.

I'm trying to tease out (exactly) what you want in -05 (which is 
obviously needed now for the ABNF changes, if nothing else).

James

At 08:01 AM 10/28/2010, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote:
>To be more specific - we had a document that allowed multiple 
>locations. It was reduced to one without any decision in that 
>direction being made by the working group. It needs to go back to 
>multiple values.
>
>In my view there are clear use cases where multiple values are required.
>
>regards
>
>Keith
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Richard L. Barnes
> > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:19 PM
> > To: James M. Polk
> > Cc: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [sipcore] Location Conveyance -04 submitted,
> > here's the changes
> >
> > >> I'm pretty comfortable with the document at this point,
> > but have just
> > >> one minor question: Why are you still limiting the number
> > of location
> > >> values?  Why are three values harmful, but not two?  This
> > still seems
> > >> like pointless ABNF legislation.
> > >
> > > we only added the ability to have a second locationValue because of
> > > your rough-loc ID. Before that, we were firm in not
> > allowing more than
> > > one.  Given that choice, which do you like?
> > >
> > > Remember, this was Jon's proposal in SIPCORE in Anaheim, which it
> > > seemed everyone and their brother was agreeable with, so ...
> >
> >
> > As I recall, the proposal was to just remove the limit on the number
> > of locations values, not to bump it up by one.  From the minutes:
> >
> > "Restore Geolocation header that has multiple URIs, even though we
> > would not recommend it. Entities inserting persence are responsbile
> > for any resulting errors. The header parameters distinguishing URIs
> > would not be added back in."
> >
> > At least in my mind, multiple != 2.
> >
> > --Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > james
> > >
> > >
> > >> --Richard
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Oct 27, 2010, at 12:32 AM, James M. Polk wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> SIPCORE
> > >>>
> > >>> I've submitted the next version of Location Conveyance (-04)
> > >>>
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipcore-locatio
> > n-conveyance-04.txt
> > >>> and I believe this version has addressed each open item from the
> > >>> mailing list, as well as what was discussed and agreed to in the
> > >>> Maastricht meeting.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have attempted to identify each open issue with the specific
> > >>> resolution here (in no particular order):
> > >>>
> > >>> - Martin wanted Section 3 to be broken up into subsections, each
> > >>> revolving around each of the 4 diagrams. I have done this.
> > >>>
> > >>> - allowed a maximum of two (up from one) locationValues to be
> > >>> present in the Geolocation header value. The text however
> > recommends
> > >>> against inserting a second value. This was agreed to in
> > Maastricht.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Because we're allowing a max of two locationValues,
> > they can be in
> > >>> separate Geolocation headers in the SIP request. This scenario
> > >>> necessitates bring a previous version's paragraph in
> > stating that a
> > >>> 'SIP intermediary MUST inspect all instances of each Geolocation
> > >>> header before considering the routing-allowed parameter to be
> > >>> considered =yes', to ensure there isn't a conflict in the 'other'
> > >>> Geolocation header that states the policy is =no.
> > >>>
> > >>> - with the ability to add a second locationValue, it is
> > necessary to
> > >>> warn against doing this (confusion at the LRs).
> > >>>
> > >>> - Added the "you break it you bought it" philosophy to SIP
> > >>> intermediaries that choose to insert a second location where one
> > >>> already existed, especially for inserting a location URI in the
> > >>> downstream SIP request.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Fixed the ABNF to handle zero, one or two (but no more)
> > >>> locationValues according to the agreement in Maastricht.
> > There is a
> > >>> one-off use case which won't be in play very often, but
> > is a WG item
> > >>> in ECRIT that several wanted to allow the possibility for
> > (involving
> > >>> allowing one coarse and one highly accurate location in
> > the same SIP
> > >>> request).
> > >>>
> > >>> - Paul K. wanted the use-case in which a SIP intermediary
> > inserts a
> > >>> locationValue where one didn't exist previously, and
> > received a 424
> > >>> (Bad Location Information) to that inserted location, from having
> > >>> the 424 propagate towards the UAC (as the UAC might not
> > know what to
> > >>> do with a 424). This is now covered in Section 4.3.
> > >>>
> > >>> - changed existing text to "MUST NOT" from "does not" about a 424
> > >>> not terminating an existing dialog (just increased the strength of
> > >>> this.
> > >>>
> > >>> - I added the 424 to the table 2 entry in which the Geolocation
> > >>> header can be in only this response.
> > >>>
> > >>> - I added text stating the conditions for adding a Geolocation
> > >>> header value to the 424, to make it clear what is and what isn't
> > >>> allowed for this.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Martin wanted me to add back in the top level Geolocation-Error
> > >>> codes 100, 200, 300 and 400, which I did in section 4.3.
> > >>>
> > >>> - rejected the idea that the geolocation option-tag hasn't been
> > >>> justified.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Added RFCs 2616, 2818 and HELD Deref ID to the
> > references section
> > >>> because I added the ability to include HTTP: and HTTPS: URIs, and
> > >>> stated if received, they should be dereferenced according to the
> > >>> HELD Deref doc.
> > >>>
> > >>> - changed the Section 5 examples how Martin wanted them.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Stated that GEO-URIs are not appropriate for the SIP Geolocation
> > >>> header, according to the discussion during the Maastricht Geopriv
> > >>> meeting.
> > >>>
> > >>> - we changed the privacy section, and included a ref to
> > the Geopriv
> > >>> Arch doc, according to the agreement in Geopriv at Maastricht.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Comments are encouraged
> > >>>
> > >>> We plan to request (3rd?) WGLC during the SIPCORE meeting
> > in Beijing
> > >>> (to give folks a sense of our plans).
> > >>>
> > >>> James/Brian/Jon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> sipcore mailing list
> > >>> [e-mail]
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
> > >
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