Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-10.txt

[Gunnar Hellström <[e-mail]>]

Den 2017-06-01 kl. 20:28, skrev Randall Gellens:
> Edited down for clarity.
>
> At 8:16 PM +0200 6/1/17, Gunnar Hellström wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ---Change 2.5-----
>>>>>  Requiring exactly one language per direction in the answer 
>>>>> requires a tight coupling between the device and the user that we 
>>>>> have avoided to specify. It would require either that the device 
>>>>> takes the negotiation decision and dictates to the user e.g. 
>>>>> "SPEAK GERMAN NOW !, or that there is a user interface interaction 
>>>>> to decide which language to answer in, e.g. "The calling part may 
>>>>> accept French or German, indicate here which one you will answer 
>>>>> with".
>>>>>
>>>>>  We do not want to dictate that kind of tight coupling, and 
>>>>> therefore must allow a number of alternative languages in various 
>>>>> media to appear in the answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ---Old text 2.5---
>>>>>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' is the language the answerer will send
>>>>>  when using the media (which in most cases is one of the languages in
>>>>>  the offer's 'hlang-recv'), and 'hlang-recv' is the language the
>>>>>  answerer expects to receive in the media (which in most cases is one
>>>>>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>>>>>  ---New text 2.5---
>>>>>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' may be one or a list of alternative 
>>>>> languages the
>>>>>  answerer will select from for sending if using the media for 
>>>>> language
>>>>>  (which in most cases is one of the languages in the offer's 
>>>>> 'hlang-recv'),
>>>>>  and 'hlang-recv' may be one or a list of alternative languages 
>>>>> the answerer
>>>>>  can accept to receive if the media is used for language (which in 
>>>>> most cases is one
>>>>>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Having one language per media in the answer has been part of the 
>>>> draft all along. I don't recall seeing an objection to this before. 
>>>> Further, Section 3 has said all along that attempting to negotiate 
>>>> multiple languages per media is out of scope:
>>>>
>>>>  (Negotiating multiple simultaneous languages within a media stream is
>>>>  out of scope of this document.)
>>>>
>>>  <GH>Yes, the user will only use one language. But have you thought 
>>> about the consequences for how to accomplish a negotiation result of 
>>> just one language in a media, and just that language will also be 
>>> used by the answering human?
>>>
>>>  It will require tight coupling in the user interface of a kind that 
>>> you do not want to discuss. If the UA decides that the answering 
>>> part will send spoken german, then that needs to be conveyed to the 
>>> user. If the UA instead lets the user decide, then there must be a 
>>> question-answer exchange between the UA and the user to enable the 
>>> UA to have just one language for the media in the answer.
>>>
>>>  We have agreed that some kind of such coupling is needed, and we do 
>>> not specify how. But the requirements on the operation will be much 
>>> less strict if we allow a list of languages per media to be the 
>>> result of the negotiation.
>>>
>>>  The paranthesis " (Negotiating multiple simultaneous languages 
>>> within a media stream is
>>>  out of scope of this document.) " will then apply to the user.
>>>
>>>
>>>  This is a quite new finding from when trying to think through a 
>>> real negotiation, so I am prepared to discuss how strict we should be.
>>>
>>  <GH>After the exercise with the negotiation today, I see that I can 
>> relax this requirement.
>>  But it needs to be clear that the negotiated language in a media 
>> just maybe used for language.
>>  So that it is clear that no simultaneous use is normally required.
>>
>>  That leads to
>>  --New text 2.5 ---
>>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' is the language the answerer will send
>>  if using the media for language (which in most cases is one of the 
>> languages in
>>  the offer's 'hlang-recv'), and 'hlang-recv' is the language the
>>  answerer expects to receive in the media (which in most cases is one
>>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>>
>>  ---end of 2.5 -------------------------
>
> Your request is to change "when using the media" to "if using the 
> media for language".  I can live with this.
>
<GH>Good, accepted.

-- 
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Gunnar Hellström
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