Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-10.txt

[Randall Gellens <[e-mail]>]

Edited down for clarity.

At 8:16 PM +0200 6/1/17, Gunnar Hellström wrote:

>>>>
>>>>  ---Change 2.5-----
>>>>  Requiring exactly one language per direction 
>>>> in the answer requires a tight coupling 
>>>> between the device and the user that we have 
>>>> avoided to specify. It would require either 
>>>> that the device takes the negotiation 
>>>> decision and dictates to the user e.g. 
>>>> "SPEAK GERMAN NOW !, or that there is a user 
>>>> interface interaction to decide which 
>>>> language to answer in, e.g. "The calling 
>>>> part may accept French or German, indicate 
>>>> here which one you will answer with".
>>>>
>>>>  We do not want to dictate that kind of tight 
>>>> coupling, and therefore must allow a number 
>>>> of alternative languages in various media to 
>>>> appear in the answer.
>>>>
>>>>  ---Old text 2.5---
>>>>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' is the language the answerer will send
>>>>  when using the media (which in most cases is one of the languages in
>>>>  the offer's 'hlang-recv'), and 'hlang-recv' is the language the
>>>>  answerer expects to receive in the media (which in most cases is one
>>>>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>>>>  ---New text 2.5---
>>>>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' may be one or a 
>>>> list of alternative languages the
>>>>  answerer will select from for sending if using the media for language
>>>>  (which in most cases is one of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-recv'),
>>>>  and 'hlang-recv' may be one or a list of 
>>>> alternative languages the answerer
>>>>  can accept to receive if the media is used 
>>>> for language (which in most cases is one
>>>>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Having one language per media in the answer 
>>> has been part of the draft all along. I don't 
>>> recall seeing an objection to this before. 
>>> Further, Section 3 has said all along that 
>>> attempting to negotiate multiple languages 
>>> per media is out of scope:
>>>
>>>  (Negotiating multiple simultaneous languages within a media stream is
>>>  out of scope of this document.)
>>>
>>  <GH>Yes, the user will only use one language. 
>> But have you thought about the consequences 
>> for how to accomplish a negotiation result of 
>> just one language in a media, and just that 
>> language will also be used by the answering 
>> human?
>>
>>  It will require tight coupling in the user 
>> interface of a kind that you do not want to 
>> discuss. If the UA decides that the answering 
>> part will send spoken german, then that needs 
>> to be conveyed to the user. If the UA instead 
>> lets the user decide, then there must be a 
>> question-answer exchange between the UA and 
>> the user to enable the UA to have just one 
>> language for the media in the answer.
>>
>>  We have agreed that some kind of such coupling 
>> is needed, and we do not specify how. But the 
>> requirements on the operation will be much 
>> less strict if we allow a list of languages 
>> per media to be the result of the negotiation.
>>
>>  The paranthesis " (Negotiating multiple 
>> simultaneous languages within a media stream is
>>  out of scope of this document.) " will then apply to the user.
>>
>>
>>  This is a quite new finding from when trying 
>> to think through a real negotiation, so I am 
>> prepared to discuss how strict we should be.
>>
>  <GH>After the exercise with the negotiation 
> today, I see that I can relax this requirement.
>  But it needs to be clear that the negotiated 
> language in a media just maybe used for 
> language.
>  So that it is clear that no simultaneous use is normally required.
>
>  That leads to
>  --New text 2.5 ---
>  In an answer, 'hlang-send' is the language the answerer will send
>  if using the media for language (which in most 
> cases is one of the languages in
>  the offer's 'hlang-recv'), and 'hlang-recv' is the language the
>  answerer expects to receive in the media (which in most cases is one
>  of the languages in the offer's 'hlang-send').
>
>  ---end of 2.5 -------------------------

Your request is to change "when using the media" 
to "if using the media for language".  I can live 
with this.

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
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