Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"

Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> Wed, 10 January 2018 15:25 UTC

Return-Path: <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
X-Original-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170BD12783A for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:25:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Quarantine-ID: <c7OjlV-_HBGd>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version"
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.91
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c7OjlV-_HBGd for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:25:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from turing.pensive.org (turing.pensive.org [99.111.97.161]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82BA126FDC for <slim@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:25:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [99.111.97.136] (99.111.97.161) by turing.pensive.org with ESMTP (EIMS X 3.3.9); Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:26:27 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p06240601d67be0d19e11@[99.111.97.136]>
In-Reply-To: <tjr6h9ssme6omoled7tb1vo9.1515574168842@email.android.com>
References: <tjr6h9ssme6omoled7tb1vo9.1515574168842@email.android.com>
X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:25:50 -0800
To: Gunnar Hellstrom <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
From: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
Cc: slim@ietf.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/slim/bqHvzLaPGtx67yLUOSJASvBqHWw>
Subject: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
X-BeenThere: slim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Selection of Language for Internet Media <slim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/slim/>
List-Post: <mailto:slim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:25:57 -0000

The text seems clear to me that it is per media 
stream.  It says "each media stream primarily 
intended for human language communication".

At 12:39 PM +0100 1/10/18, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:

>  No, the proposed change is wrong.
>  The reason why it says "one" for the 
> asymmetrical  case is that the rule is stated 
> per media only. In the asymmetrical case you 
> have hlang-send in one media and hlang-recv in 
> another media.
>
>  By the discussion now, I think it is evident 
> that a better explanation is needed. It is easy 
> to forget that the wording is per media.
>
>  (You can of course imagine a case when you want 
> to offer both symmetric and asymmetric  use for 
> selection by the answerer, but then you also 
> need the possibility to set preference between 
> language in different media that we have 
> discussed a lot but not included. )
>
>  /Gunnar
>
>
>
>  Gunnar Hellström
>  Omnitor
>  gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
>  +46 708 20 42 88
>
>
>
>  -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>  Från: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
>  Datum: 2018-01-10 01:54 (GMT+01:00)
>  Till: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
>  Kopia: slim@ietf.org, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
>  Rubrik: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
>
>  It's in -23, which I've held off uploading, to see if any more
>  comments come in.
>
>  At 4:29 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>
>>   That would help, thanks,
>>
>>>   On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Randall Gellens
>>>  <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>   The wording is intended to permit only one to be specified for
>>>  asymmertical use cases, it is not intended to disallow both to be
>>>  specified.  This could be clarified by adding "or both":
>>>
>>>     When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>     language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>     stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>     specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one or both of) the
>>>     'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes.
>>>
>>>
>>>   At 3:07 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>>
>>>>   In Section 5.1 of -22, I noted the following sentence:
>>>>
>>>>   " When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>  language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>  stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>  specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one of) the
>>>>  'hlang- send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes."
>>>>
>>>>   [BA] In our previous discussions, we have talked about scenarios
>>>>  (e.g. speech impaired, but not hearing impaired) in which it is
>>>>  useful to include both 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' so as to
>>>>  accommodate user needs.  Wouldn't such a scenario qualify as
>>>>  "asymmetrical language use"?  If so, how could the user's needs
>>>>  be accommodated with only one of the 'hlang-send' or 'hlang-recv'
>>>>  attributes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   SLIM mailing list
>>>>   SLIM@ietf.org
>>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Randall Gellens
>>>   Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>>   -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>   There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates,
>>>   and the glare that obscures.            --James Thurber
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   SLIM mailing list
>>   SLIM@ietf.org
>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>
>
>  --
>  Randall Gellens
>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>  Liberals are trusting and optimistic because
>  they believe other people are much like themselves.
>  Conservatives are hostile and fearful because they
>  believe the same thing.


-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority,
it is time to reform.                         --Mark Twain