Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)

Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Fri, 06 December 2019 19:27 UTC

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From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, rtg-ads <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:25:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)
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Ole,

While I may agree with you that is an attack on process here – and you may even find consensus on that statement – I am far from convinced you would find consensus on the question of which group is conducting the attack on process.

Andrew


From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 22:14
To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>rg>, 6man <6man@ietf.org>rg>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>rg>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>om>, rtg-ads <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>rg>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)

Tom,

> Bear in mind that quality discussion is real work by those
> participating. It is a lot of effort to carefully read drafts, give
> clear feedback, and respond to rebuttals. I would like to think that
> the work individuals put in is justified by the outcome, and I assume
> it the chairs prerogative to steer the discussion as necessary to
> drive towards a discernible outcome in a finite amount of time.

Absolutely.
Unfortunately the IETF process is open to attacks.
It appears that something akin to a proxy war is being fought.
Some things has to be in place for a consensus based process to work,
which looks to be missing here.

While the chairs have some tools to their disposition; for this to work
it requires the actors and the whole community to respect and
self-police that process.

How frustrating it may be for the spectators,
letting it play out may be the best option we got.

Best regards,
Ole

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