Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))

"Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com> Sat, 07 December 2019 10:14 UTC

Return-Path: <ketant@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984C3120169; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:14:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.5
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=W2iuGubj; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=u0dw6HcX
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SYkTa1uf1IXK; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:14:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A536120142; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:14:19 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=21180; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1575713659; x=1576923259; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=W7iC8iP8MI55oZRLwSvnIgJIQhlUG5HPP8daija2tiE=; b=W2iuGubj21gc06Y/GISrqb1h0Mtug34wHgtRsFFH+u9yEv1M6C+7d2Fe /iNskEaN1/tFuzapL+Vwpb7OaVw+1l3ML8lfr5hwQcFsKsydfmst4bHNv UWAyul/54knsMC8EKkRULOj1HykYUPlg9M4ToapKwsKysAuHvBzToCEFQ U=;
IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AE++Q8RJpFvwDIyv9jNmcpTVXNCE6p7X5OBIU4Z?= =?us-ascii?q?M7irVIN76u5InmIFeCtKd2lFGcW4Ld5roEkOfQv636EU04qZea+DFnEtRXUg?= =?us-ascii?q?Mdz8AfngguGsmAXE72MPfscwQxHd9JUxlu+HToeUU=3D?=
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AuAAAze+td/4oNJK1lGgEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBAQEBEQEBAQICAQEBAYFtAgEBAQELAYEbLyQsBWxYIAQLKoQsg0YDiwC?= =?us-ascii?q?CX4lbiUiEYoJSA1QJAQEBDAEBJQgCAQGEQAIXgX4kNwYOAgMNAQEEAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?FBG2FNwyFUgEBAQEDEhEKEwEBLAsBDwIBCBEEAQEkBAMCAgIfERQJCAIEAQ0?= =?us-ascii?q?FCBqDAYF5TQMuAQ6gJQKBOIhhdYEygn4BAQWFFg0LghcDBoE2AYwXGoFBP4E?= =?us-ascii?q?RR4JMPoEEgRdJAQECAYFiDB8JgloygiyPbjmFUJgjQwqCLocjiiWEOYJCh3O?= =?us-ascii?q?PfY5KgUWHAIIWj1ACBAIEBQIOAQEFgWgjgVhwFTuCbFARFIxmOIM7hRSFP3Q?= =?us-ascii?q?BAYEmj25fAQE?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.69,287,1571702400"; d="scan'208,217";a="590696541"
Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 07 Dec 2019 10:13:50 +0000
Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id xB7ADode025513 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:13:50 GMT
Received: from xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 04:13:50 -0600
Received: from xhs-rtp-003.cisco.com (64.101.210.230) by xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 05:13:48 -0500
Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xhs-rtp-003.cisco.com (64.101.210.230) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 05:13:48 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=X91D/AJ0USGFyU4FdKRl2/U+57PnNjIoZ/U900xBufqDAVrC+MrovHhwVO4d2ZkKYgMYA5tLORihWYNgNRYSmnQbDdu8iXa+LFIGZvYiWnPc7efUzJoSJJM0qAdKXFZMZllWB4LPx/AV8WbtVP0tV6tr32XRJeGo1mrduaKhlpSlEsUUK4jzpDULbqAR/zld8T7jfZrtMkVGQntvJuCmgzrvtKL58meNEvOEOdZ9ynhdB3ThYioK4uU2xUSAycygH2WA2v6p5wsh2F49c+mSR8n60agVJWieiIxFkOWas97e0yQSGaKeWy3n7K/gPz5OuMhv+AGhcWpPp9wQZcRrsQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=W7iC8iP8MI55oZRLwSvnIgJIQhlUG5HPP8daija2tiE=; b=VbGITri+2kyQo+6nibCJVIzfIEnPNtA8TT6m5ju2jJC8txbnSMmDCcsq6ZzqrC7XeRF6RokAZ2eQMoZXVsrYvIHDVnMU2Kk+aGc3vR6mZlJUtLT8NYEqxJZ33CSbqk3eNaxmWqZwUWRCExqCK1tV+b0CDTwuj9qV1fi3wEbBcCyuVYV1KpEhTjayBUuzB7IcG7DCxtlwoxfHtXdC49DeqIE7vyp+hiEjTKYDOy+QG5lzMxTRUsRMuELVprliOfnOK2XhrpVmvG7GpyF1ElSNtZbIP+94ME0fDcIGeew9xWtcCdMiJLqiE0hiDEQDJdD1vt8doKLZXmLy9Y+e6MhxIQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=W7iC8iP8MI55oZRLwSvnIgJIQhlUG5HPP8daija2tiE=; b=u0dw6HcXq0kfVieZEBBh1P6aiMVdai04Us9cAOOaE+1VgeoJlJCgAYUJEPX8aJ70D6XlPaZyJrWGHooWiK4QU8F6RHdgU7cLRW1irv2Nqt++NTQCCB1ehuO6h1Q+wU9UCeuOuQhlnJihhk5T6lYj0dqylLbUJOpPYLDstk275AE=
Received: from MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.172.53.142) by MWHPR11MB1501.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.172.54.136) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.14; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:13:47 +0000
Received: from MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8a0:f6fc:426:8b5d]) by MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8a0:f6fc:426:8b5d%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.014; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:13:48 +0000
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>, rtg-ads <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))
Thread-Index: AQHVrM7NynNtHrgv10eiJ0GxAzvKd6eucD5Q
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:13:47 +0000
Message-ID: <MWHPR11MB1600C5E0821814913110DA16C15E0@MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <f2a0ad13-0eba-6f5a-1d3c-e45e2780f201@si6networks.com> <D666EA6E-E8E9-439A-9CDE-20857F03CB65@employees.org> <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <d59de54e-c7f8-be67-1e77-b051735d40a6@gmail.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <c6e1f690-b0bf-9f45-8fa7-92ed182c5b04@gmail.com> <a2cc5cbd-ac06-e193-307c-3ffe5b21b0b1@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com>
In-Reply-To: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ketant@cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2405:201:1800:c766:f042:eb72:602c:5767]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2a9ac837-a735-4094-4e7a-08d77afe265b
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1501:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR11MB1501D932E5B11CDE1F812EC0C15E0@MWHPR11MB1501.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 0244637DEA
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(376002)(39860400002)(136003)(366004)(346002)(199004)(189003)(99286004)(102836004)(478600001)(7696005)(66946007)(6506007)(186003)(64756008)(9686003)(2906002)(8936002)(316002)(52536014)(110136005)(966005)(66446008)(53546011)(5660300002)(54906003)(8676002)(76116006)(86362001)(81166006)(66556008)(66476007)(71200400001)(790700001)(7416002)(229853002)(71190400001)(54896002)(55016002)(33656002)(76176011)(74316002)(4326008)(81156014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR11MB1501; H:MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: RPKk1lXqYXJQyxwIxkF9zDgXlzbq5o1qpI4XilWdXsnWG9E+MeRmGAMN5hXl+/7Q4c6O0+oY1Q9LrOxL51HS6ecxWotOBlepAMi+XMfoMOs4sP+Tzwi6dga05o28xIbbNSE/371ogHWc9hKc3yy31v9F4KtVippfD0eYGYHYnWx8X1HebvDzc3O40s7hzqaZDj7bLS3566r9Y2P4Jc7iyZox5eBimJLErzlVeX4dMi9/a96iG9VCikNLjCY3Pcb3kEHAWpYnS4/sglKyh4QsP9TSJmdRNEKfAbDuwZmPhdEajrbJjupl5hSC+ApCAwAYaL/VsuKYzsygvpsAsWdoiDQOckIPqZ6WCCkOg1F4c8nbdbPZkRRuZN5tJv294tf2q5TEhigaQSbmPwmtpfpFx8P3Dafol884n7Kqwkf1Y4h/UxtTGvygPKcz3gx1eF26Pm3Q+LlZGGuk4sOT/xG0/kXnQQDPOg3BI88WZTp1Z/w=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MWHPR11MB1600C5E0821814913110DA16C15E0MWHPR11MB1600namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2a9ac837-a735-4094-4e7a-08d77afe265b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Dec 2019 10:13:47.7435 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 5SlqqUPnjE6unzLPC3ffCvZqdY+/oUpDltZmeeh5ioFNKHM5Hoy6NO+zZVNf6mA/zsMr8oph9gFh61bzLolXFQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1501
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/eohCj0_DNRHUXdknQ-QCGIHqHnc>
Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))
X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" <spring.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/spring>, <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spring/>
List-Post: <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring>, <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 10:14:21 -0000

+1

For some strange reason the PSP behaviour is being mixed with EH insertion and likely there is some misunderstanding here.

Fernando says:

(pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the
network removal’)

This is NOT what PSP is (refer https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-4.16.1) – the “pop” is done when the SL becomes 0.

FWIW, this has been stated in different ways and clarified on the mailing list previously by the authors as well as others involved in SRv6 development and deployments. There is no violation of RFC8200 here.

Thanks,
Ketan

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Suresh Krishnan
Sent: 07 December 2019 12:50
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>om>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; int-ads@ietf.org; Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>om>; rtg-ads <rtg-ads@ietf.org>rg>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>om>; Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>rg>; Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Subject: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))

(responding on spring mailing list)

Hi Fernando,


On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com<mailto:fgont@si6networks.com>> wrote:

On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

Again, comment at the end...
On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote:

On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
[...]



and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done.

Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200.

You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright
violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation".



Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather than any single WG.

I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an
existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position
of making decisions regarding the spec being violated.

That would be like a waste of energy and time for all.




At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text?

There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances?

Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple
answer would be "yes".

But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the text, at least not clear to me.

The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot
unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with
respect to how ready the document is to be shipped.

(pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the
network removal’)

It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 though it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I am looking at is

"  Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not
   processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery
   path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes,
   in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field
   of the IPv6 header.”

which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a violation?

Regards
Suresh