Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)

Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Fri, 06 December 2019 22:24 UTC

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From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, rtg-ads <rtg-ads@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:23:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)
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Ole - so - let me understand something.

The definition of consensus - among other things - say that all outstanding objections have been addressed (though not potentially resolved).  When you have multiple people saying - a draft violates RFC8200 and that is a concern - and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done.  Multiple concerns have been raised - a number of which have not been addressed to the satisfaction of those asking the questions.

Yet - we now see documents being pushed through to last call without these things being addressed.  So I would ask - what exactly do you, as a working group chair propose we do - swallow our technical concerns and our objections and because we've said it once, and it's been ignored or swept under the rug, shrug our shoulders and say - oh well - that’s ok - we tried - and let something we believe to be technically flawed sail through?

I stood and very clearly stated multiple times that I believe that work on this stuff and the drafts which I am co-author on should continue in parallel - because for one - I believe in some ways - they address different things - yet - at the same time - that does not mean that I believe that we should accept things which we have deep technical concerns about.  

The engineering must come first - and it seems very clear to me that both myself and others - have significant technical and operational concerns - and I find it rather bizarre that you seem to imply that once these concerns are stated once - we should swallow it and accept a situation where these are not addressed and documents are shoved through to last call in the face of serious technical objection.

So - please - clarify for me - are you asking us to swallow our objections and just accept something that violates another rfc for which there is consensus just because we asked once, and the issue wasn't addressed - so that makes it somehow disappear?  Or what exactly are you expecting of us?

Andrew


On 07/12/2019, 01:02, "Ole Troan" <otroan@employees.org> wrote:

    
    
    > On 6 Dec 2019, at 22:09, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
    > 
    > I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but anyway I
    > should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attacking
    > the process?
    
    I would rather say taking advantage of the process.
    
    By reiterating the same assertive arguments again and again you contribute to polarization. Your strategy for consensus building seems to be one of attrition. 
    
    If you want to help make the process work, I would encourage you to reconsider that approach.
    
    Ole