Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO
Rohit Khare <rkhare@gmail.com> Tue, 28 September 2010 23:53 UTC
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From: Rohit Khare <rkhare@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:53:48 -0700
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Subject: Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO
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Hi, I’m Rohit Khare, and I apologize for being so late to this list. Perhaps like other folks, I was aware that there was some work going on under the brand name of “vCard”; and checked in on the drafts and this listserv from time to time; but didn’t realize the community was at WG Last Call until now. I am concerned that vCardDAV is reusing the brand name and credibility of a very widely used non-IETF ‘standard’ to advance several dramatic changes, without taking full advantage of the unique opportunity to solve some extremely important adjacent problems at the same time. Almost every successful data storage format has been human-readable and incrementally editable (see also ‘ASN.1’). Merely using XML doesn’t make that so, especially when there are opportunities to learn from formats fielded for exporting 100M+ contacts that could be considered and rejected for better reasons than “Standards are good” (w.r.t. sex=1 vs. gender ‘male’ — we’re dealing with social data rather than medical data, and there are far, far more culturally- defined gradations of gender than sex alone). Similarly, DEATH. I stand ready to be corrected, but I don’t know of a significant fielded system for “contacts” or “social graphs” that has user experience with such fields. Names are defined by their uses, so we ought to be able to identify more utility than merely demonstrating round-trip interop to accept an expansion of the core vocabulary. Finally, there’s the role of standards as a social forum to solve industry-wide problems. There are a lot of “investors” in the existing vCard, but I haven’t been convinced by my (admittedly cursory!) readings of the list and docs that organizations controlling large amounts of contact data have put these new ideas through their paces by exporting (much less, importing) data in vCard4. In this, I appeal to the circular fact that this work is trying to brand itself as a vCard successor, so it bears the additional burden of soliciting support from existing vCard users before it can assume that mantle. Of course, there’s no end to demands to “coordinate” with other groups and standards, especially for something as foundational as contact information. I realize that volunteers who have poured their time and effort into this process deserve better than an endless stream of objections or complaints. I am speaking for myself, in the IETF tradition of individual participation. Yes, I’ve worked with Tantek on microformats.org ; I currently work with Joseph Smarr; and I recently worked for the division of BT that Kevin Marks is at. Heck, DAV itself came out of our Web research group at UCI (as did REST). In each of these cases, though, my role was based on more than a passing familiarity with standards, markup, Web architecture, and “social” computing. It has been a few years since I’ve authored an IETF standard, but I don’t believe the norms have changed enough to believe that ‘voting’ is any way to come to ‘rough consensus and running code.’ I’m under no illusion that toting up YES and NO replies to the list is definitive, or even deserving of equal weight. I also have a lot of sympathy for the years of work that have gone into these docs and the frustration that might result from a late-comer voicing ‘principled’ concerns. However, and with sincere apologies to folks I haven’t even met f2f yet (including Cyrus, Marc, and the rest of the WG) I have to state that NO, I’m not comfortable with a Last Call for these two documents at this time. Respectfully, Rohit Khare rohit@khare.org Hacker, KNX.to (former) Product Manager, Google (current)
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Tantek Çelik
- [VCARDDAV] Pending feedback Julian Reschke
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Rohit Khare
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Rohit Khare
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Mike Douglass
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Joseph Smarr
- [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Julian Reschke
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? Mike Douglass
- Re: [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Rohit Khare
- Re: [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Julian Reschke
- Re: [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Eliot Lear
- Re: [VCARDDAV] wg concensus to publish? NO Rohit Khare
- Re: [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Simon Perreault
- Re: [VCARDDAV] vCard3->4 changes Cyrus Daboo