Re: [arch-d] Time to reboot RFC1984 and RFC2804?

Guntur Wiseno Putra <> Thu, 15 October 2020 12:38 UTC

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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 19:38:50 +0700
Message-ID: <>
To: Brian E Carpenter <>
Cc: Andrew Campling <>, "" <>
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] Time to reboot RFC1984 and RFC2804?
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Dear Brian, Andrew, &

I am attempting to read this thread which may be around "how the IETF in
relation with the politics of the Internet":

Mr Brian said: "... to make *our* protocols secure against inspection or
forgery by 3rd parties, and that it's our job to do so".

Thanks to the Internet among others, the world society is no globalized: by
such machine of communication operating globally, it is about societal
elements of the economic, the political and the cultural among others. As
well national as international goverments ('policies) are part of the
event. What would global economy, politics and culture supposedly be...?

To the matter above we may find questions about engineering the Internet,
especially its protocols, and its institutional supports. There are
interests and whereas protocols define how a tech works/operates, does
changed invariants* of a tech not mean another, or new, tech...? As the
Internet is not the telephone so that new invariants makes the new tech not
to be the Internet --considering a history of the Internet which
collaborates with the telephone...?

* Being cited from the "2019 ISOC Global Report: Consolidation in the
Internet Economy":
(We) may think of the I as an idea of how networks of computers
communicate, and the
invariants describe the most important features of that idea. This concept
of the Internet as an idea is operationalised through some familiar
protocols (e.g., Internet Protocol, Border Gateway Protocol) and functions
(e.g., the Internet Assigned
Numbers Authority).)

The invariants are:
-global reach, integrity
-general purpose
- supports innovation without requiring permission
- accessible
- based on interoperability and mutual agreement
- collaboration
- technology, reusable building block

Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Kamis, 15 Oktober 2020, Brian E Carpenter <>

> Andrew,
> On 14-Oct-20 23:41, Andrew Campling wrote:
> ...
> >  In addition, I challenge the presumption that the IETF is the only body
> able to make such a determination about these matters and that it can and
> should do so without undertaking full consultation with other stakeholders.
> I for one make no such presumption. But we have never made that claim. The
> claim we've made is that we know how to make *our* protocols secure against
> inspection or forgery by 3rd parties, and that it's our job to do so.
> When we try to go wider than that, we fail. I am not very sympathetic to
> "a true multi-stakeholder consultation process as suggested by the IAB’s
> RFC 8890". The IETF is not in any way a suitable vehicle for that kind of
> process, as anyway who remembers WGIG/WSIS is well aware.
> Regards
>     Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Architecture-discuss mailing list