RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal
Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com> Mon, 30 June 2003 15:56 UTC
Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02631 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:56:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5UFtxx28001 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:59 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19X10Z-0007HU-Bz for asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:59 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02598; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19X10S-00029u-00; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:52 -0400
Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19X10H-00029o-00; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:41 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19X0zd-00071k-TB; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:55:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19X0yb-0006r2-BC for asrg@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:54:12 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02225 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:53:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19X0pl-00020K-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:44:49 -0400
Received: from 000-235-455.area5.spcsdns.net ([68.27.158.252] helo=68.27.158.252) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19X0pU-0001zw-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:44:33 -0400
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030630114256.00b5b2a8@std5.imagineis.com>
X-Sender: research@solidmatrix.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
To: Peter Kay <peter@titankey.com>, asrg@ietf.org
From: Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com>
Subject: RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal
In-Reply-To: <DD198B5D07F04347B7266A3F35C42B0B0D8EA8@io.cybercom.local>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
X-MimeHeaders-Plugin-Info: v2.03.00
X-GCMulti: 1
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg/>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:43:40 -0400
I will be writing up something this week and will post it to the list, so we can start working on defining this. At 02:32 PM 6/29/2003 -1000, Peter Kay wrote: >OK, I'm with you on this. Can you share w/ the group what his "framework >definition" should look like so that those of us interested in assisting >can, in fact, assist? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yakov Shafranovich [mailto:research@solidmatrix.com] > > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 8:37 AM > > To: Peter Kay; asrg@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal > > > > > > At 09:19 PM 6/27/2003 -1000, Peter Kay wrote: > > > > >Yakov, > > > > > >I'll summarize my response based on your points and questions below: > > > > > >What I'm talking about is that our consent framework define a very, > > >very general set of standards such that: > > > > > >1. vendors can develop an anti-spam software module based on > > whatever > > >they think is a good idea. > > > > > >2. this module can be installed/plugged in/inserted/etc such that it > > >will apply to either the MUA or MTA, depending on how it was > > intended. > > > > > >3. each module can interoperate with both the framework (of > > course) and > > >each other. This would allow modules to be installed in "series" or > > >possibly "parallel" so that several different modules can be > > stacked to > > >provide a powerful anti-spam technology. > > > > > >4. The modules can be controlled by a hierarchical organization > > >starting w/ the ISP at the highest level, then cascading to > > the domain, > > >then the end user. > > > > All correct, > > > > >If we think this is a good idea, then we can take all the different > > >specific anti-spam approaches that have been proposed so far and go > > >back and forth between thinking up the framework and thinking up the > > >modifications that would be required to the existing proposed > > >technologies. > > > > Yes that is what I am trying to accomplish. > > > > >The framework would primarily define the "bus" or the basic way that > > >data would be passed from one module to another both for the MTA and > > >MUA perspective. The analogy here is we create a "PCI bus" > > designed to > > >allow end-users to control email that gets to their inbox and we let > > >customer need and market forces to create the specific "PCI > > Cards" that > > >get plugged into a given email infrastructure. > > > > I don't know if there would be a "bus" of some sort, more > > likely a few > > interacting protocols like CRI. > > > > >Does this make sense or am I completely way off in > > understanding what > > >we're talking about when we say framework? > > > > > >Peter Kay > > >President > > >TitanKey Software Web: www.titankey.com > > >The only technology that stops spam BEFORE it's even sent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I think you've got the beginning of a consent-based > > > > framework. I like > > > > >it. What I'm getting out of this is: > > > > > > > > > >A. there exists a plug-in infrastructure that can run on > > MUA or MTA > > > > >(ISP). > > > > > > > > Plug-in is not the correct word here, we are seeking to create a > > > > general framework with details left for specific implementations. > > > > > > > > >B. each plug-in provides for some type of policy definition, > > > > related to > > > > >the plugins purpose. This can range from filtering to CR > > to all the > > > > >other methods mentioned below. > > > > > > > > Each implementation/ > > > > > > > > >C. each plug-in can be configured by a hierarchy. Starting > > > > w/ the ISP > > > > >(for instance), then perhaps a domain-level admin (for corporate > > > > >applications0 and then the end-user. We can decide on > > > > varying levels > > > > >of defaults or override capability so that for example if an ISP > > > > >whitelists a source, the end-user may have the option to > > > > blacklist it. > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting that the various implementations > > should be able > > > > to interoperate? This can be done by defining interoperability > > > > protocols like the CRI protocol for C/R systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To me, this reinforces what I've seen over the past few > > > > months on this > > > > >group: > > > > > > > > > >1. no one can agree what spam is. So at the end of the day, the > > > > >user has to have the power to decide. This is in line w/ the > > > > >charter. > > > > > > > > Agreed > > > > > > > > >2. no one technological approach "religion" (i.e. filtering, > > > > C/R, etc) > > > > >is adequate to deal with the general problem of "unwanted email". > > > > > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > > > >3. spammers will change their methods as time goes on, so the > > > > >architecture must allow for that. > > > > > > > > Agreed > > > > > > > > > > > > >In addition, a consent-based framework allows for multiple > > > > vendors to > > > > >participate. If we can create some sort of "email bus" I > > > > think it has a > > > > >lot of potential. > > > > > > > > An email bus? Can you explain this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Yakov Shafranovich [mailto:research@solidmatrix.com] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:23 AM > > > > > > To: asrg@ietf.org > > > > > > Subject: [Asrg] Consent Proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to provide a generic proposal for > > > > consent-based system > > > > > > as per > > > > > > charter: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Users and/or ISP define rules and filters to > > filter incoming > > > > > > email. Rules/filters are decided by end users and ISPs, > > > > and are not > > > > > > mandated. > > > > > > Every user/ISP can define its own policies ranging > > from banning > > > > > > all email not digitally signed to blocking HTML. > > > > > > 2. For each email user, the MUA or the ISP maintains a > > > > > > whitelist of trusted > > > > > > senders, blacklist of blocked senders and a graylist of > > > > > > unknown senders. > > > > > > Whitelisted senders go the inbox, graylisted senders go to > > > > > > the bulk folder, > > > > > > and blacklisted senders are either in the spam folder or > > > > > > erased. 3. Whitelists are not only a list of email addresses > > > > > > of trusted senders, > > > > > > but to avoid sender spoofing also have additional features > > > > > > such as digital > > > > > > signatures, certificates, passwords, tokens, etc. > > > > > > 4. Additional automatic whitelist rules are defined as such > > > > > > email from > > > > > > trusted senders (e.g. Habeas) is automatically goes to the > > > > > > inbox unless > > > > > > blacklisted, etc. C/R systems are also integrated and upon > > > > > > receiving a > > > > > > positive response automatically whitelist the sender. > > > > > > 5. Additional automatic blacklist rules are defined such as > > > > > > email coming > > > > > > from known open relays is blocked. > > > > > > 6. Whitelists, graylists and blacklists are stored hashed or > > > > > > encrypted to > > > > > > protect privacy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yakov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Asrg mailing list > > > > > > Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >Asrg mailing list > > > > >Asrg@ietf.org > > > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Asrg mailing list > > > > Asrg@ietf.org > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Asrg mailing list > > >Asrg@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Asrg mailing list > > Asrg@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Asrg mailing list >Asrg@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- [Asrg] Consent Proposal Mark McCarron
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- [Asrg] Trust, misunderstood? Danny Angus
- [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Selby Hatch
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- [Asrg] Consent Proposal gep2
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Bob Wyman
- Anticipatory whitelisting (was Re: [Asrg] Consent… Bruce Stephens
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Peter Kay
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Walter Dnes
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Craig Cockburn
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: Anticipatory whitelisting (was Re: [Asrg] Con… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Danny Angus
- RE: Fwd: Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Bob Wyman
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Howard Roth
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Danny Angus
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Danny Angus
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal C. Wegrzyn
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal C. Wegrzyn
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal C. Wegrzyn
- Re: [Asrg] Consent Proposal Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Trust, misunderstood? Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Trust, misunderstood? C. Wegrzyn