Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited
Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> Thu, 18 May 2023 14:31 UTC
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From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 07:29:13 -0700
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To: ehalep@gmail.com
Cc: ehalep@mojatatu.com, hemant=40mnkcg.com@dmarc.ietf.org, "Bernier, Daniel" <daniel.bernier@bell.ca>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com>, coin <coin@irtf.org>, coinrg-chairs <coinrg-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited
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Thanks Evangelos for the update. Hesham On Thu, May 18, 2023, 7:03 AM <ehalep@gmail.com> wrote: > Greetings Hesham, > > > > Thanks for the links. > > The youtube link (https://youtu.be/adElYIbthy4) is from last year’s p4 > workshop. While the talk discusses the concept and ideas behind P4TC, > however from an implementation point of view, P4TC has evolved. > > Initially eBPF was not included with P4TC, but after some intense > experimentation and measurements, it became clear that having eBPF for > datapath implementation had some non-negligent gains in performance, losing > however some of the initial goals of flexibility and scriptability. > > To this end the current iteration has an xor of the two options specified > in the previous email. > > > > The outcome of the experimentation and measurements were presented by > Jamal at this year’s P4 workshop, but to my knowledge there is no public > video right now of the presentation. > > > > Regards, > > Evangelos. > > > > > > *From:* Coin <coin-bounces@irtf.org> *On Behalf Of *Hesham ElBakoury > *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2023 2:40 AM > *To:* ehalep@mojatatu.com > *Cc:* hemant=40mnkcg.com@dmarc.ietf.org; Bernier, Daniel < > daniel.bernier@bell.ca>; Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>; Marie-Jose > Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com>; coin <coin@irtf.org>; coinrg-chairs < > coinrg-chairs@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > > > Hi Evangelos, > > Here is the last presentation you coauthored with Jamal on P4TC: > > https://youtu.be/adElYIbthy4 > > > > Jamal has this page in github about P4TC: > https://github.com/p4tc-dev/docs/blob/main/why-p4tc.md > > > > Any more recent info? > > > > Thanks > > Hesham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 17, 2023, 4:05 PM <ehalep@mojatatu.com> wrote: > > Greetings to all, > > Very interesting discussion so far with a lot of interesting points. What > interested me the most are the key points that P4 BMv2 is not sufficient > for real world PoCs and there is a real need in the community for ways to > new ideas on real environments, without having the need for specialized or > expensive hardware. P4PI is one alternative. > > However, P4TC (https://www.p4tc.dev/), which Hemant referred to, has been > developed for some time now and has become more mature, tries to overcome > these issues and provide, as Jeff pointed out, a much needed open and > widespread ecosystem for developing. > > P4TC is a P4 kernel-native implementation on top of the Linux Traffic > Control (TC) that facilitates both a kernel-based software datapath and > hardware datapath offload. By virtue of using TC, an operator could execute > one or more P4 programs 1) entirely in the kernel datapath (baremetal, > containers, VMs), 2) offload them entirely to hardware or run in a hybrid > mode where some programs run in software and others in hardware 3) for each > P4 program put part of the pipeline or table in hardware and part in > software exception datapath. P4TC will be accompanied with the P4C compiler > that will be used to generate the necessary artifacts that are used to > manifest the P4 program in the kernel. > > P4TC not only strives to allow for expression of both PNA and PSA P4 > programs but also for extensions for the sake of experimentation or > creation of new ideas. Additionally, the software and hardware datapaths > are intended to have the same functional behavior i.e an input X into > either will produce an output Y. This implies that the software datapath > can be used as a behavioral model definition for a P4 program that can be > tested and validated in absence of hardware - and when offloaded would be > expected to behave as it did in software. The aforementioned features make > P4TC a strong candidate to replace BMv2 for practical industry and academic > use cases. > > P4TC and the respective compiler will be delivered as open source. > > The current iteration of P4TC contains either a Partial TC/XDP eBPF(parser > only) and P4TC being aware of parser, or a Hybrid approach of scriptable > P4TC and eBPF at TC and XDP, using kfunc APIs to overcome eBPF's > limitations. > > Regards, > Evangelos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Coin <coin-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of hemant= > 40mnkcg.com@dmarc.ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 9:10 PM > To: 'Bernier, Daniel' <daniel.bernier@bell.ca>; 'Toerless Eckert' < > tte@cs.fau.de>; 'Hesham ElBakoury' <helbakoury@gmail.com> > Cc: 'Marie-Jose Montpetit' <marie@mjmontpetit.com>; 'coin' <coin@irtf.org>; > coinrg-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > P4toTC has ETA of Dec. 2023 and no compiler is open-source yet. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernier, Daniel <daniel.bernier@bell.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:00 PM > To: 'Toerless Eckert' <tte@cs.fau.de>; Hesham ElBakoury < > helbakoury@gmail.com> > Cc: hemant@mnkcg.com; 'Marie-Jose Montpetit' <marie@mjmontpetit.com>; > 'coin' <coin@irtf.org>; coinrg-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > Hi all, > > Interesting discussion although I think it went WAY overboard __ > > However, it is achieved and on which ever target it is achieved, what we > want is an open and accessible (sometimes through commercial agreement) > method to program the a forwarding pipeline and hopefully at some point do > more than create, modify or readjust packet operations. > Now in my mind there is no best or worse target since all have a role to > play and sometimes target decision has nothing to do with its efficiency. > > Example: Ericsson UPF wants to offload UPF, has no commercially viable > ASIC based offering (they partner with Juniper MX) so, obviously they would > prefer a DPU approach. But if they could, wouldn't they prefer an ASIC due > to $ rationale compared to CPU/DPU (power, cost, etc.) ... think FWA for > millions of subscribers. And yes, sometimes ASICs will be better but for > OPEX efficiency (software agility, cloud native principles, scarcity of > skilled resources, etc.) other vendors will stay towards CPU architectures > (look at evolution of OpenBNG efforts). > > Now, what Tofino achieved is prove to the world that it was possible to > create a cost efficient, performant fully programmable (missing the TM > component here) silicon with the added benefit of creating a highly > creative ecosystem of customers, academics, vendors, etc. Hopefully, people > will remember what P4 exposed to the network industry (from IETF draft > pseudo-code to HW representation in less than a week). > > As per targets, all have their strengths and flaws. VPP is a great > workhorse and ideal for virtual functions data plane, so if you want to > build a terabit virtual router perfect but you need programmability ninjas. > As a cloud native or application-oriented data path, I would turn my eyes > towards eBPF and even efforts at a P4TC, P4OVS, P4EBPF are diminutive to > the reach and flexibility of native eBPF. > > SAI is completely different to me its benefit is to avoid the dreaded > multi-vendor RFC interop dance. I know what behaviors I want out of my > multi-terabit ASIC, make sure it is implemented in SAI and then have the > vendors conform to it. I could achieve similarly the same result by making > my vendors conform to a P4 program, but it won't guarantee an ecosystem of > silicon support. > > And in conclusion, whatever the language, we already know that in a few > years some sort of GenAI will be our API to express forwarding intents and > will then derive autogenerated code (whatever language) and compile to the > proper targets __ > > PS : in the context of COIN, purpose is to achieve computation in whatever > form of processing power is available in the network. If to achieve it I > need to deploy DPUs all over the place, ain't that just MEC ? > > Cheers, > > Dan B > > On 2023-05-16, 8:12 PM, "Coin on behalf of 'Toerless Eckert'" < > coin-bounces@irtf.org <mailto:coin-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of > tte@cs.fau.de <mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>> wrote: > > > As soon as you see the first published research paper using NPL, pls. let > me know ;-) > > > On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:11:56AM -0700, Hesham ElBakoury wrote: > > I checked with Broadcom and I was told that NPI language is not > proprietary > > and is open. However, NPL DIY with toolchain is a licensed product. > Broadcom > > does not have NPL API like P4Runtime API. > > > > Hesham > > > > On 5/15/2023 1:19 PM, hemant@mnkcg.com <mailto:hemant@mnkcg.com> wrote: > > > > > > Broadcom NPL is proprietary, and Broadcom develops customer code in NPL > > > for switch. Further Trident/Jericho 2 are 10-12 Tbps asics while Octeon > > > 10 is a 1 Tbps asic. My company’s P4 compiler makes Octeon P4 > > > programmable. > > > > > > Hemant > > > > > > *From:* Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com <mailto: > helbakoury@gmail.com>> > > > *Sent:* Monday, May 15, 2023 3:28 PM > > > *To:* hemant@mnkcg.com <mailto:hemant@mnkcg.com>; 'Toerless Eckert' < > tte@cs.fau.de <mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>>; 'Marie-Jose > > > Montpetit' <marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com>> > > > *Cc:* 'coin' <coin@irtf.org <mailto:coin@irtf.org>>; > coinrg-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:coinrg-chairs@ietf.org> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > > > > > How you compare Marvel Octeon 10 with Broadcom Trident and Jericho 2 > > > devices which use NPL (https://nplang.org <https://nplang.org>). > > > > > > Hesham > > > > > > Toerless, > > > > > > This is the latest network processor which supports use in a switch or > nic. > > > > > > > https://www.marvell.com/content/dam/marvell/en/company/media-kit/octeon-10/marvell-octeon-10-media-deck.pdf > < > https://www.marvell.com/content/dam/marvell/en/company/media-kit/octeon-10/marvell-octeon-10-media-deck.pdf > > > > > > > > This is your Tofino replacement with hardware available from Marvell > and P4 compiler and tools chain available from my company. > > > > > > Hemant > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Coin<coin-bounces@irtf.org <mailto:coin-bounces@irtf.org>> > <mailto:coin-bounces@irtf.org <mailto:coin-bounces@irtf.org>> On Behalf > Of Toerless Eckert > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 1:04 PM > > > > > > To: Marie-Jose Montpetit<marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto: > marie@mjmontpetit.com>> <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto: > marie@mjmontpetit.com>> > > > > > > Cc: coin<coin@irtf.org <mailto:coin@irtf.org>> <mailto:coin@irtf.org > <mailto:coin@irtf.org>>;coinrg-chairs@ietf.org <mailto: > coinrg-chairs@ietf.org> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > > > > > Thanks, Marie-Jose > > > > > > IMHO: > > > > > > - P4 in research short-term: > > > > > > Researchers can not do real-world relevant PoC with just BMV2, because > it has no constraints. > > > > > > All those papers claiming some problem can be solved with P4 and then > just use BMV2 are just > > > > > > so painful to read/listen-to. We really need a BMV2 with the exact > constraints of Tofino, > > > > > > and given how Intel is deinvesting from Tofino, maybe they would > finally be willing to > > > > > > publish those constraints outside of NDA so this can be implemented > into BMV2. > > > > > > - SmartNICs: > > > > > > P4 is not the right DSL for SmartNICs even if Intel may say so because > they want to > > > > > > sell SmartNICs and have a brand with P4. SmartNICs are much more > flexible, and programming then > > > > > > in P4 constraints you. If you don't know anything better, try eBPF. > That is AFAIK the > > > > > > most widely adopted DSL today to span general purpose CPU (host/router > CPU), and SmartNICs. > > > > > > SmartNICs are a great target FPE for forwarding plane features you do > not need on every hop, > > > > > > but for example only on few "can be more expensive" hops. WAN > interface of site-edge-routers > > > > > > (Campus, Home, WAN) for example. But do not try to assume they would > be used beyond that > > > > > > (on every hop == especially on higher aggregation speed links!). > > > > > > - P4/Coin for higher-than-forwarding-plane features: > > > > > > With Tofino disappearing, i think we should caution researchers to NOT > invest cycles trying to > > > > > > implement solutions on P4 with the explicit purpose of "abusing" > Tofino, aka: Program a > > > > > > non-forwarding-plane problem solution in P4 in the expectation that a > fast P4 exeuction > > > > > > product like Tofino would be a great alternative/competition to other > execution platforms > > > > > > (SmartNIC, CPU,...). We had several of those great ideas > presented/shown in Coin, they > > > > > > where all about higher than forwarding-plane "compute" problems. But > very quickly, with > > > > > > Tofino aging, i am sure CPU or SmartNIC slutions for the same problems > can easily be > > > > > > shown to be more cost-effective. > > > > > > - Long-term forwarding plane research: > > > > > > The rejection of the industry (outside Intel) to support P4 for > researchers on their router/switch > > > > > > forwarding planes (for a decade now) should primarily be a trigger for > research funding > > > > > > such as from NSF/EU to better enable long-term forwarding plane > research. IMHO there > > > > > > should simply be a single well funded effort for a Network Programming > Element (NPE) equivalent > > > > > > to RISC-V. Aka: fully open source architecture and instruction set for > a research NPE, > > > > > > competitive to industry products. There are lot of other benefits from > such an effort > > > > > > that could help make that happen. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Toerless > > > > > > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 03:33:42AM -0700, Marie-Jose Montpetit wrote: > > > > > > Interesting article for out community. > > > > > > mjm > > > > > > Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. > > > > > > marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com> > > > > > > From: Larry Peterson from Systems Approach > > > > > > <systemsapproach@substack.com <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com>> > <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com>> > <systemsapproach@substack.com <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com>> > <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com <mailto:systemsapproach@substack.com > >> > > > > > > Reply: Larry Peterson from Systems Approach > > > > > > <reply+1zsws7&rqag0&&3ca860fd966ac1a0bf575ed48379b6645b7df5edc0903e4c5 > > > > > > e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com <mailto: > e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com>> > > > > > > <reply+1zsws7&rqag0&&3ca860fd966ac1a0bf575ed48379b6645b7df5edc0903e4c5 > > > > > > e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com <mailto: > e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com>> > > > > > > Date: May 15, 2023 at 3:55:52 AM > > > > > > To:marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com> < > marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com>> > > > <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com>> > > > > > > <marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com>> <mailto: > marie@mjmontpetit.com <mailto:marie@mjmontpetit.com>> > > > > > > Subject: The Future of P4, Revisited > > > > > > The P4 Workshop was a couple weeks ago, and as General Chair, I went > > > > > > into it with a fair amount of trepidation. My concern was that Intel’s > > > > > > announcement earlier this year that they’re cancelling development of > > > > > > the Tofino 3 switching chip would have a chilling effect, not only on > > > > > > the Workshop, but also on the future of P4. That concern has been > > > > > > voiced in several forums > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Open in app > > > > > > <https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one- > < > https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one-perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> > < > https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one- <https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one-perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> > <https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one- <https:/open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one-perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store>> > ;> > > > > > > perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> > > > < > https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one-perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> > < > https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one-perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> > ;> > > > > > > or online > > > > > > <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY > < > https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dG9rZW49ZXlKMWMyVnlYMmxrSWpvME5qVTNOakl5TkN3aWNHOXpkRjlwWkNJNk1USXdOakF4TlRreExDSnBZWFFpT2pFMk9EUXhNemN6TkRrc0ltVjRjQ0k2TVRZNE5qY3lPVE0wT1N3aWFYTnpJam9pY0hWaUxUSTRNemswTXlJc0luTjFZaUk2SW5CdmMzUXRjbVZoWTNScGIyNGlmUS50UVhzNmRNSG1GRWdMS0I0dlVHNHVHSlRVU0UwTjdVZEFIMXFzajg2bUNBIiwicCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJzIjoyODM5NDMsImYiOnRydWUsInUiOjQ2NTc2MjI0LCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJsaW5rLXJlZGlyZWN0In0.6L7-AmSfpdLfVXnKIHzqDqYX9u_tCmRVPJC2N9oP8gU?> > < > https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dG9rZW49ZXlKMWMyVnlYMmxrSWpvME5qVTNOakl5TkN3aWNHOXpkRjlwWkNJNk1USXdOakF4TlRreExDSnBZWFFpT2pFMk9EUXhNemN6TkRrc0ltVjRjQ0k2TVRZNE5qY3lPVE0wT1N3aWFYTnpJam9pY0hWaUxUSTRNemswTXlJc0luTjFZaUk2SW5CdmMzUXRjbVZoWTNScGIyNGlmUS50UVhzNmRNSG1GRWdMS0I0dlVHNHVHSlRVU0UwTjdVZEFIMXFzajg2bUNBIiwicCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJzIjoyODM5NDMsImYiOnRydWUsInUiOjQ2NTc2MjI0LCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJsaW5rLXJlZGlyZWN0In0.6L7-AmSfpdLfVXnKIHzqDqYX9u_tCmRVPJC2N9oP8gU?> > <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY <https:/substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dG9rZW49ZXlKMWMyVnlYMmxrSWpvME5qVTNOakl5TkN3aWNHOXpkRjlwWkNJNk1USXdOakF4TlRreExDSnBZWFFpT2pFMk9EUXhNemN6TkRrc0ltVjRjQ0k2TVRZNE5qY3lPVE0wT1N3aWFYTnpJam9pY0hWaUxUSTRNemswTXlJc0luTjFZaUk2SW5CdmMzUXRjbVZoWTNScGIyNGlmUS50UVhzNmRNSG1GRWdMS0I0dlVHNHVHSlRVU0UwTjdVZEFIMXFzajg2bUNBIiwicCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJzIjoyODM5NDMsImYiOnRydWUsInUiOjQ2NTc2MjI0LCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJsaW5rLXJlZGlyZWN0In0.6L7-AmSfpdLfVXnKIHzqDqYX9u_tCmRVPJC2N9oP8gU?>> > ;> > > > > > > 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dG9< > 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https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > < > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > ;> > > > > > > MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ< > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > < > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > ;> > > > > > > .tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > > > < > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > < > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> > ;> > > > > > > Larry Peterson > > > > > > <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > ;> > > > > > > eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > > > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > ;> > > > > > > May 15 > > > > > > <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > < > https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> > ;> > > > > > > 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https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=true&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJyZWFjdGlvbiI6IuKdpCIsImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjgzOTQzIiwic3ViIjoicmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.vN6AE7iLQvKkv98V0RaNKEWEX9UdKbdHQdc3nu95Kyg&utm_medium=email> > ;> > > > > > > ImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjgzOTQzIi< > https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=120601591&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=true&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJyZWFjdGlvbiI6IuKdpCIsImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjgzOTQzIiwic3ViIjoicmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.vN6AE7iLQvKkv98V0RaNKEWEX9UdKbdHQdc3nu95Kyg&utm_medium=email> > < > 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- [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
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- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
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- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Bernier, Daniel
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Y. Richard Yang
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
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- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
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