Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited
Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> Mon, 15 May 2023 19:28 UTC
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Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 12:28:04 -0700
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To: hemant=40mnkcg.com@dmarc.ietf.org, 'Toerless Eckert' <tte@cs.fau.de>, 'Marie-Jose Montpetit' <marie@mjmontpetit.com>
Cc: 'coin' <coin@irtf.org>, coinrg-chairs@ietf.org
References: <CAPjWiCT2ipu=yiZFr8hBGF2wy-Y_Dmze=8j+PgeDFyN7KNZR6w@mail.gmail.com> <ZGJl+6YPQarlDSTr@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <034201d98757$bbd87550$33895ff0$@mnkcg.com>
From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited
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How you compare Marvel Octeon 10 with Broadcom Trident and Jericho 2 devices which use NPL (https://nplang.org). Hesham > Toerless, > > This is the latest network processor which supports use in a switch or nic. > > https://www.marvell.com/content/dam/marvell/en/company/media-kit/octeon-10/marvell-octeon-10-media-deck.pdf > > This is your Tofino replacement with hardware available from Marvell and P4 compiler and tools chain available from my company. > > Hemant > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Coin<coin-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 1:04 PM > To: Marie-Jose Montpetit<marie@mjmontpetit.com> > Cc: coin<coin@irtf.org>;coinrg-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited > > Thanks, Marie-Jose > > IMHO: > > - P4 in research short-term: > Researchers can not do real-world relevant PoC with just BMV2, because it has no constraints. > All those papers claiming some problem can be solved with P4 and then just use BMV2 are just > so painful to read/listen-to. We really need a BMV2 with the exact constraints of Tofino, > and given how Intel is deinvesting from Tofino, maybe they would finally be willing to > publish those constraints outside of NDA so this can be implemented into BMV2. > > - SmartNICs: > P4 is not the right DSL for SmartNICs even if Intel may say so because they want to > sell SmartNICs and have a brand with P4. SmartNICs are much more flexible, and programming then > in P4 constraints you. If you don't know anything better, try eBPF. That is AFAIK the > most widely adopted DSL today to span general purpose CPU (host/router CPU), and SmartNICs. > > SmartNICs are a great target FPE for forwarding plane features you do not need on every hop, > but for example only on few "can be more expensive" hops. WAN interface of site-edge-routers > (Campus, Home, WAN) for example. But do not try to assume they would be used beyond that > (on every hop == especially on higher aggregation speed links!). > > - P4/Coin for higher-than-forwarding-plane features: > With Tofino disappearing, i think we should caution researchers to NOT invest cycles trying to > implement solutions on P4 with the explicit purpose of "abusing" Tofino, aka: Program a > non-forwarding-plane problem solution in P4 in the expectation that a fast P4 exeuction > product like Tofino would be a great alternative/competition to other execution platforms > (SmartNIC, CPU,...). We had several of those great ideas presented/shown in Coin, they > where all about higher than forwarding-plane "compute" problems. But very quickly, with > Tofino aging, i am sure CPU or SmartNIC slutions for the same problems can easily be > shown to be more cost-effective. > > - Long-term forwarding plane research: > The rejection of the industry (outside Intel) to support P4 for researchers on their router/switch > forwarding planes (for a decade now) should primarily be a trigger for research funding > such as from NSF/EU to better enable long-term forwarding plane research. IMHO there > should simply be a single well funded effort for a Network Programming Element (NPE) equivalent > to RISC-V. Aka: fully open source architecture and instruction set for a research NPE, > competitive to industry products. There are lot of other benefits from such an effort > that could help make that happen. > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 03:33:42AM -0700, Marie-Jose Montpetit wrote: >> Interesting article for out community. >> >> mjm >> >> Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. >> marie@mjmontpetit.com >> >> >> >> From: Larry Peterson from Systems Approach >> <systemsapproach@substack.com> <systemsapproach@substack.com> >> Reply: Larry Peterson from Systems Approach >> <reply+1zsws7&rqag0&&3ca860fd966ac1a0bf575ed48379b6645b7df5edc0903e4c5 >> e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com> >> <reply+1zsws7&rqag0&&3ca860fd966ac1a0bf575ed48379b6645b7df5edc0903e4c5 >> e79a3a42d6a0a51@mg1.substack.com> >> Date: May 15, 2023 at 3:55:52 AM >> To:marie@mjmontpetit.com <marie@mjmontpetit.com> >> <marie@mjmontpetit.com> >> Subject: The Future of P4, Revisited >> >> The P4 Workshop was a couple weeks ago, and as General Chair, I went >> into it with a fair amount of trepidation. My concern was that Intel’s >> announcement earlier this year that they’re cancelling development of >> the Tofino 3 switching chip would have a chilling effect, not only on >> the Workshop, but also on the future of P4. That concern has been >> voiced in several forums >> >> >> >> >> >> Open in app >> <https://open.substack.com/pub/systemsapproach/p/the-future-of-p4-one- >> perspective?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store> >> or online >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dG9 >> rZW49ZXlKMWMyVnlYMmxrSWpvME5qVTNOakl5TkN3aWNHOXpkRjlwWkNJNk1USXdOakF4T >> lRreExDSnBZWFFpT2pFMk9EUXhNemN6TkRrc0ltVjRjQ0k2TVRZNE5qY3lPVE0wT1N3aWF >> YTnpJam9pY0hWaUxUSTRNemswTXlJc0luTjFZaUk2SW5CdmMzUXRjbVZoWTNScGIyNGlmU >> S50UVhzNmRNSG1GRWdMS0I0dlVHNHVHSlRVU0UwTjdVZEFIMXFzajg2bUNBIiwicCI6MTI >> wNjAxNTkxLCJzIjoyODM5NDMsImYiOnRydWUsInUiOjQ2NTc2MjI0LCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxM >> zczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJsaW5rLXJlZGl >> yZWN0In0.6L7-AmSfpdLfVXnKIHzqDqYX9u_tCmRVPJC2N9oP8gU?> >> The Future of P4, Revisited >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=post-email-title&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIj >> o0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6 >> MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ >> .tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> >> >> Larry Peterson >> <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> May 15 >> <https://substack.com/redirect/ff29b5a3-7ea9-4b83-b888-b0c517b2bedd?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=true&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2 >> VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJyZWFjdGlvbiI6IuKdpCIs >> ImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjgzOTQzIi >> wic3ViIjoicmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.vN6AE7iLQvKkv98V0RaNKEWEX9UdKbdHQdc3nu95Kyg&u >> tm_medium=email> >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=true&comments=tr >> ue&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiO >> jE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI >> 6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA&ut >> m_source=substack&utm_medium=email> >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dXR >> tX3NvdXJjZT1zdWJzdGFjayZ1dG1fbWVkaXVtPWVtYWlsJmFjdGlvbj1yZXN0YWNrLWNvb >> W1lbnQiLCJwIjoxMjA2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0MywiZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQ >> sImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1Y >> iI6ImxpbmstcmVkaXJlY3QifQ.hfc7rMzN53dfpysbLYXxmtkw9siB9dPnC71KIavCOTo? >> &utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email> >> >> Share >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&action=sh >> are&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNC >> wicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiOjE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0 >> OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFE >> gLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA> >> >> >> The P4 workshop has now been chaired by both co-founders of Systems >> Approach, but this year the P4 landscape has shifted again with >> Intel’s announcement that Tofino 3, its flagship P4-powered switching >> chip, would not go ahead. There is much more to P4 than Tofino, >> however, as we explore in this week’s newsletter. >> ------------------------------ >> >> The P4 Workshop >> <https://substack.com/redirect/4b87822a-70c6-4ffa-864a-45637b26909c?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> was a couple weeks ago, and as General Chair, I went into it with a >> fair amount of trepidation. My concern was that Intel’s announcement >> <https://substack.com/redirect/a0831b60-fff8-4ded-88c7-f3e6ef7e1e54?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> earlier this year that they’re cancelling development of the Tofino 3 >> switching chip would have a chilling effect, not only on the Workshop, >> but also on the future of P4. That concern has been voiced in several >> forums, including SIGCOMM’s Slack workspace >> <https://substack.com/redirect/300dcab9-6056-4c82-9627-1e08ea449b0e?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>, >> with members of the P4 Advisory Board >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2fcc130d-cf74-4d68-be4e-d531cbb379b4?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> making reassuring pronouncements in various settings. (See for >> example, Nick McKeown’s post to the P4 Forum >> <https://substack.com/redirect/b0f9bc57-686d-4962-8676-c234ebcbd12f?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>, >> and Nick along with Nate Foster and Jennifer Rexford discussing the >> future of Network Programmability on The Networking Channel >> <https://substack.com/redirect/f2016908-8afb-4538-be3d-5d0e6aab0b3c?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> ). >> >> I won’t try to give a point-by-point replay of what Nick, Nate, and >> Jen and others have been saying, except to observe that at a high >> level it can be summarized as follows: >> >> *Programmable Networks >> P4 Language >> Tofino Switching Chip* >> >> They point out, for example, that Tofino is just one of many >> interesting backend targets for P4 programs (SmartNICs >> <https://substack.com/redirect/f5d04cdb-5915-42ab-9904-a20c38eeab33?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> and IPUs >> <https://substack.com/redirect/a0ddc803-4ea3-4248-96a1-bdc33f86cd15?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> being the next “big deal”) and P4 is one of many tools being used to >> inject functionality into the end-to-end network path (DPDK and eBPF >> being two active projects that people are integrating with P4). >> Ultimately, the value of programmability comes from having visibility >> and control over the network, and there are many complementary approaches to making that happen. >> With that background, I do have three takeaways from what turned out >> to be an interesting and vibrant two days at the P4 Workshop (despite >> my initial concerns). >> >> First, we’re often so focused on P4 as a tool to program the >> forwarding pipeline that we forget the other half of its value >> proposition: It also provides a way to specify the behavior of a >> pipeline (independent of how that pipeline is implemented). We talk >> about this idea, and the value of being able to auto-generate the >> Control API, in the P4 chapter of our SDN Book >> <https://substack.com/redirect/4b87822a-70c6-4ffa-864a-45637b26909c?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>. >> Rob Sherwood made a similar argument >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2442a19b-b82c-410c-8692-f50b89733875?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> at the P4 Workshop. It is now becoming a reality as companies like >> Google are starting to use such behavioral definitions as a Hardware >> Abstraction Layer (see Parveen Patel’s Keynote >> <https://substack.com/redirect/e656a164-3fef-497b-9628-ffeb700108af?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> at the Workshop). This makes me hopeful that we are rapidly >> approaching the day when a P4 program (plus the generated P4RT >> interface) will become the standard way network providers specify >> their requirements to network vendors, and proposed new features >> (whether proprietary or standard) will be specified by a P4 program >> (potentially augmenting the intuition and design rationale presented in an RFC). >> >> *As an aside, I couldn’t help but notice the similarities between the >> architecture Parveen described and the way P4 has been used to program >> the forwarding plane of the 5G Mobile Core >> <https://substack.com/redirect/64e4cac9-e6fd-4652-8e36-09f50ff1305c?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>. >> Both include a P4-based “abstract forwarding model” that’s independent >> of the underlying implementation details*. >> >> Second, it is common to divide forwarding pipelines into “programmable” >> versus “fixed function”, but this glosses over what might be the more >> important distinction: whether the pipeline is *open* or *closed*. >> Even “fixed function” pipelines are increasingly flexible–it’s just a >> question of how restrictive the vendor is in who they allow to make >> changes. This restriction may have the biggest impact on researchers >> who want to experiment with a new feature (especially ones that do not >> yet have a proven market), but maybe less so in the commercial world >> where incentives to make changes are (arguably) well-defined. Using P4 >> as the “spec language” (as I just outlined) has the potential to >> accelerate the process on the commercial side. On the research side, >> there is a strong argument in favor of using Tofino 2 to demonstrate >> the feasibility and value of new ideas (12.8 Tb/s still makes for a >> credible Proof-of-Concept), and repeating the refrain yet again, >> P4-as-spec makes for a compelling tech transfer story. If that were to >> happen, it would be interesting to see how vendors and chip designers >> adapt to reduce their spec-to-hardware implementation overhead. I >> would argue that programmable forwarding planes have a time-to-market advantage even for closed solutions. >> >> Third, our focus on quantifiable metrics makes it easy to forget about >> the less quantifiable aspects of programmability. At its core, P4 is a >> programming language that does a good job of abstracting the essence >> of a packet forwarding pipeline. It is enormously impressive that a P4 >> program can be compiled onto a PISA-based >> <https://substack.com/redirect/01cfb256-04e7-49f8-9600-55e1471955b8?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> switching chip that has the same performance, die area, cost, and >> power consumption of a fixed-function ASIC (and that equivalency was >> probably necessary for P4 to be taken seriously), but hitting that >> quantifiable mark is not sufficient. Well-designed languages are >> software tools that bring clarity to the intellectual challenge of >> programming. For me, the biggest “aha” moment of the Workshop was when >> Chris Sommers (long-time P4 contributor and new co-Chair of the API >> Working Group) started rattling off all the functions he’d been >> involved in writing in P4, and remarking on how natural P4 makes that >> process. There is certainly room to add new language features as P4 >> expands its domain to include SmartNICs and IPUs—as Chris and the >> other WG chairs are now pursuing—but having an existing target to evolve is a great position to be in. >> >> One common thread that weaves its way through these three takeaways is >> that Intel’s cancellation of the Tofino 3 chip is a potentially >> helpful forcing >> function: The P4 community has to demonstrate the value of the >> language without being buttressed by ever-improving performance >> numbers that have more to do with 7nm semiconductor technology than >> anything networking people have done. I saw a lot of evidence that >> exactly that is happening at last month’s workshop. The march to >> programmable networks is inevitable (in my view), and I’m still >> optimistic about the role P4 will play a central role. >> >> Systems Approach is reader-supported and we are committed to keeping >> our books and articles open to all. 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The latest entrant is a Portuguese translation >> <https://substack.com/redirect/e0ad5652-867f-4d2c-8cd6-3fc8b0f8eda0?j= >> eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0> >> of our Private 5G book by Edmar Candeia Gurjão. You can find other >> translations of our books here >> <https://substack.com/redirect/0d0dad50-a3db-42e9-9ad6-95318436a540?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>. >> >> >> You can follow us on Mastodon >> <https://substack.com/redirect/3e6fc5cc-6a89-4a15-97bf-231cf12de9ec?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>. >> >> >> You're currently a free subscriber to Systems Approach >> <https://substack.com/redirect/3d94c242-4758-4bf3-9e1d-62b5ce3f23ab?j=eyJ1IjoicnFhZzAifQ.CwdsLjQyIcRXfYRGUucLsXfrvggM3KKa9Z1jxtXNWH0>. >> For the full experience, upgrade your subscription. >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3N1YnNjcmliZT90b2tlbj1leUoxYzJWeVgybGtJam8wTmpVM05 >> qSXlOQ3dpYVdGMElqb3hOamcwTVRNM016UTVMQ0psZUhBaU9qRTJPRFkzTWprek5Ea3NJb >> Wx6Y3lJNkluQjFZaTB5T0RNNU5ETWlMQ0p6ZFdJaU9pSmphR1ZqYTI5MWRDSjkuLW5LYUM >> tRE1weEw3Smp0bHh4U1I0aEFFLXQ2QWltZ0lENFlFRC1BbWJicyZ1dG1fc291cmNlPXBvc >> 3QiLCJwIjoxMjA2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0MywiZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQsIml >> hdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1YiI6I >> mxpbmstcmVkaXJlY3QifQ.lWjTeCLgxCt9OYaegbWWppVXvEzTeJBQs6psa45Oowg?&utm >> _source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=postcta> >> >> Upgrade to paid >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3N1YnNjcmliZT90b2tlbj1leUoxYzJWeVgybGtJam8wTmpVM05 >> qSXlOQ3dpYVdGMElqb3hOamcwTVRNM016UTVMQ0psZUhBaU9qRTJPRFkzTWprek5Ea3NJb >> Wx6Y3lJNkluQjFZaTB5T0RNNU5ETWlMQ0p6ZFdJaU9pSmphR1ZqYTI5MWRDSjkuLW5LYUM >> tRE1weEw3Smp0bHh4U1I0aEFFLXQ2QWltZ0lENFlFRC1BbWJicyZ1dG1fc291cmNlPXBvc >> 3QiLCJwIjoxMjA2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0MywiZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQsIml >> hdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1YiI6I >> mxpbmstcmVkaXJlY3QifQ.lWjTeCLgxCt9OYaegbWWppVXvEzTeJBQs6psa45Oowg?&utm >> _source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=postcta> >> >> Like >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=true&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2 >> VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJyZWFjdGlvbiI6IuKdpCIs >> ImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjgzOTQzIi >> wic3ViIjoicmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.vN6AE7iLQvKkv98V0RaNKEWEX9UdKbdHQdc3nu95Kyg&u >> tm_medium=email> >> Comment >> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=283943&post_id=1206 >> 01591&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=true&comments=tr >> ue&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0NjU3NjIyNCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTIwNjAxNTkxLCJpYXQiO >> jE2ODQxMzczNDksImV4cCI6MTY4NjcyOTM0OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI4Mzk0MyIsInN1YiI >> 6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.tQXs6dMHmFEgLKB4vUG4uGJTUSE0N7UdAH1qsj86mCA&ut >> m_source=substack&utm_medium=email> >> Restack >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL3AvdGhlLWZ1dHVyZS1vZi1wNC1vbmUtcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU_dXR >> tX3NvdXJjZT1zdWJzdGFjayZ1dG1fbWVkaXVtPWVtYWlsJmFjdGlvbj1yZXN0YWNrLWNvb >> W1lbnQiLCJwIjoxMjA2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0MywiZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQ >> sImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1Y >> iI6ImxpbmstcmVkaXJlY3QifQ.hfc7rMzN53dfpysbLYXxmtkw9siB9dPnC71KIavCOTo? >> &utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email> >> >> >> © 2023 Systems Approach, LLC >> 548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104 Unsubscribe >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zeXN0ZW1zYXBwcm9hY >> 2guc3Vic3RhY2suY29tL2FjdGlvbi9kaXNhYmxlX2VtYWlsP3Rva2VuPWV5SjFjMlZ5WDJ >> sa0lqbzBOalUzTmpJeU5Dd2ljRzl6ZEY5cFpDSTZNVEl3TmpBeE5Ua3hMQ0pwWVhRaU9qR >> TJPRFF4TXpjek5Ea3NJbVY0Y0NJNk1UWTROamN5T1RNME9Td2lhWE56SWpvaWNIVmlMVEk >> 0TXprME15SXNJbk4xWWlJNkltUnBjMkZpYkdWZlpXMWhhV3dpZlEuRXdaUkN3ZEdjdG8xd >> FdwbmRVd3h2eXZKUk5pVmlOX2h1ZDBVNERDbVZYayZleHBpcmVzPTM2NWQiLCJwIjoxMjA >> 2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0MywiZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQsImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzN >> zM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5MzQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1YiI6ImxpbmstcmVkaXJ >> lY3QifQ.l6lDN2unh8JkUjeYEXjKiNFu7akDZ_FyOQUxaYockVM?> >> >> [image: Start writing] >> <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zdWJzdGFjay5jb20vc >> 2lnbnVwP3V0bV9zb3VyY2U9c3Vic3RhY2smdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fY29udGV >> udD1mb290ZXImdXRtX2NhbXBhaWduPWF1dG9maWxsZWQtZm9vdGVyJmZyZWVTaWdudXBFb >> WFpbD1tYXJpZUBtam1vbnRwZXRpdC5jb20iLCJwIjoxMjA2MDE1OTEsInMiOjI4Mzk0Myw >> iZiI6dHJ1ZSwidSI6NDY1NzYyMjQsImlhdCI6MTY4NDEzNzM0OSwiZXhwIjoxNjg2NzI5M >> zQ5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMCIsInN1YiI6ImxpbmstcmVkaXJlY3QifQ.GtVGEVhyYZ__pv96 >> bIPsssoL78rJrnvkIgcdwC4WQfs?> >> -- >> Coin mailing list >> Coin@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/coin > >
- [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Bernier, Daniel
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Gianni Antichi
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Bernier, Daniel
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Bernier, Daniel
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Y. Richard Yang
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited ehalep
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Haoyu Song
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited hemant
- Re: [Coin] Fwd: The Future of P4, Revisited Hesham ElBakoury
- [Coin] The Price for Programmability in the Softw… Hesham ElBakoury