Re: [dispatch] [Last-Call] Genart last call review of draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update-03

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 10 September 2020 00:59 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: expand-draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update.all@virtual.ietf.org
Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 7155B3A09F4; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 17:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update.all@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update.all@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D883A0A63; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 17:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.047
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.948, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JwfAIwPddQFw; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 17:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com (mail-pj1-x102e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEB033A0A00; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 17:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id n3so514295pjq.1; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=INS/rZLt6GTtg/vZfhEdDfj7G7yyRptpMlFr4vQbYtg=; b=WUCtEvkZ7ovp/yzT0OxQKaem9V2VLUwXxMKZH7xWso3mYCeNp5UU+r/SaoLH8p7UiO tR3N7ki46xQt5Smjtn8LsYVRMf10FBVsVpcBUHUdSv8F1F+oV205tHFi+cLKOyCO/HUd azqLIoeHxvaCyjfRml7MalIr17Wrd2gTHtjmZOzL+cmMgGZN7iL7ArV081nQoYw38aeF Qcwub2AtTcdkloQ3WAi8P4BuEW3IedcTpmcZZexKCJYVk7qTbCdtdIJGE+9tON6gOub6 B3iwJ+Is8qmDxmE8CEOiPGh9vk921KmMAniqTqj0fJ/K6+oh98vYW3ffj8Vk2r+yldZ+ 6ULw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=INS/rZLt6GTtg/vZfhEdDfj7G7yyRptpMlFr4vQbYtg=; b=mRxM2S/q+tpn2tiq93jDGPeLY6iMjlcxNEJ8K9tDdekqNfptOAwHWZn8w2fenzrEdG TY3RF8mWUIGx0QmkuwSYne1NNnAjRQSe8iCnHrGjbkMbUt0uYEDnnJgo51zvriDpGNUC y60G5yKq2bL8sCwaWWMQMeysKSU3UX07du7m89rOWRI+c6MwASiCb/uRk1Usn6a7G0B4 9GS6K+cdB8vX0/8bXPl56oyNl7T1ti+Sc7mTd+o8m5q6ynJkMJZTJpQOupJJqa/BtW73 HA1kC3j7chMjLQhaNBXO9Xaxlzxv4n6qAJRqyGTA0f9VSMbWyDa+50TEqZ6uWyHNsrxx hkog==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532WvOmpgLVzG6JHxMGSZAnp5u4cnjEjnvxINoM18tEmXsjlkucd bmgxvafZmWKot7xW655sgRw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxDgtRvALdmPOZmGSiUPsAQwgjQzROysrhNWjfZQyjbpHU5A9J+ixRN65iAZPV7nEVb1/a2sw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3505:: with SMTP id ls5mr3006061pjb.105.1599699535168; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.138.136]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t3sm301260pje.43.2020.09.09.17.58.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com>, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Cc: "draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update.all@ietf.org" <draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update.all@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
References: <159893058662.23844.17177953972396775177@ietfa.amsl.com> <1066090379.166058.1598958286518@email.ionos.com> <CALaySJJaUDysmd+MFtQY1EfxjhVTq9sxEbQa6tf6Wy8g_3ERiA@mail.gmail.com> <674529702.175704.1598975928192@email.ionos.com> <CAL0qLwYajVR-MDHdnFzY-n4Rqzur4GHBpmQL63YBz2b74Bqa1g@mail.gmail.com> <808181205.131590.1599043971572@email.ionos.com> <CA+9kkMAwvmu5FM=R=_z37ekybHycjrz4RyNZBb3ThRFwU3XQFQ@mail.gmail.com> <d56b7ab8-52f7-c0bc-3c68-d7893c903be2@gmail.com> <916398430.283512.1599128074641@email.ionos.com> <9C86A277-47EA-47D8-8B09-1236BFDD1530@nostrum.com> <80653043.461504.1599148969376@email.ionos.com> <1541395114.285974.1599580192738@email.ionos.com> <78D63CAD-1598-4973-9393-368E708BD354@akamai.com> <93E4AA86-9CF4-4635-9E95-2A40C62E026B@nostrum.com> <903208889.160640.1599644667966@email.ionos.com> <C6758A35-A10B-4AD8-80C9-15A3543F6BBA@akamai.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70df13c2-3adf-e91e-eec5-e9c517631491@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 12:58:49 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <C6758A35-A10B-4AD8-80C9-15A3543F6BBA@akamai.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-From: alias-bounces@ietf.org
Resent-To: ted.ietf@gmail.com, barryleiba@gmail.com, superuser@gmail.com, barryleiba@computer.org, spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com, dispatch@ietf.org
Resent-Message-Id: <20200910005905.7155B3A09F4@ietfa.amsl.com>
Resent-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:59:05 -0700
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/jFbyQTvzd5uluQ-Y-7iVzi4-ZFE>
Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Last-Call] Genart last call review of draft-hardie-dispatch-rfc3405-update-03
X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List <dispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:dispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 00:59:12 -0000

On 10-Sep-20 02:52, Salz, Rich wrote:
>   * I'm not sure what was meant by Rich's comment about IANA being hired staff 
> 
>  
> 
> They are not experts.  They are hired to do administrative stuff. The things you list do not require technical expertise, but rather operational expertise.  That’s not to denigrate ops, of course.

In fairness to our friends and colleagues at IANA, what they do is not just
administrative. Yes, the end product is clerical if you like - updating a very
large set of on-line registries. Yes, they take instructions from the IESG and
the designated experts. No, they don't claim to be protocol designers. But
their work is non-trivial, involves understanding and often debugging quite
complex documents, and relies on years of experience. Without them the Internet
would be an incoherent technical failure. (OK, I freely admit that it's an
incoherent technical success. :-)

    Brian
  
> 
> I am a member of the TLS designated experts, so I know first-hand how expert review works.
> 
>  
> 
> So far you are the only one trying to remove it.
>