Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with RFC 5322 on the use of the From and Sender header fields
Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> Sat, 06 June 2020 21:42 UTC
Return-Path: <sklist@kitterman.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18C93A0D62 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 14:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=kitterman.com header.b=Pazygqih; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kitterman.com header.b=klKOHQNK
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ASIEL8KZLEZp for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 14:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from interserver.kitterman.com (interserver.kitterman.com [64.20.48.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8FFB3A0D61 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 14:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from interserver.kitterman.com (interserver.kitterman.com [IPv6:2604:a00:6:1039:225:90ff:feaa:b169]) by interserver.kitterman.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2523EF80230 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 17:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201903e; t=1591479758; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from; bh=8xm7dhwsp58+Z8d3o9FxJ7R7cdXWYNEsg3Ho+2v15/M=; b=Pazygqih+O0sCHkMIqYTsjAaac6cdAGPp6FPELTwv/fzgCubGP/FEeGwevACb/oiUwCw5 tg+taIILAxEeR4DDQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201903r; t=1591479757; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from; bh=8xm7dhwsp58+Z8d3o9FxJ7R7cdXWYNEsg3Ho+2v15/M=; b=klKOHQNKDhY78u1RPT+WRyDWQe330YWHDS0cTYfIKpeNJSkTkXlc/QXo1VrwaW5Al4ZkT Mj+z3LELXxJQf0OILpeB9VnCa56YjvDNzdyCgXucSvfGuz5FSS941pkkff6rXBGrVVUrekc e2HTm5gPXOtK067jNq9KCnBWkDEhkiWq7NU3kEBFn7nvf8wXPrIldZyjuB0wJHJPbukKbVn jM0YFSKkwMIvXL307HDOYlONHzFg8FFF8PJpj4o5+IjbtdL666Y+W9iRyYC16jdEIN14zLl RtAL183G+By3TihOwYfi3TmeLdXTk1S/g+glPUkmo2JLbzTWp032DpssapLg==
Received: from sk-desktop.localnet (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net [72.81.252.22]) by interserver.kitterman.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18CCF801DD for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 17:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 17:42:37 -0400
Message-ID: <3138524.EPDo7oxCqE@sk-desktop>
In-Reply-To: <25420528-d356-0273-ceb3-c44a3c94bc91@gmail.com>
References: <DM5PR0601MB367115AD49513EAF3953716CF68B0@DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <11640715.3lbasgNmsr@sk-desktop> <25420528-d356-0273-ceb3-c44a3c94bc91@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/MQ4cAD0ip8wJaIZqaw2k5rKCCcE>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with RFC 5322 on the use of the From and Sender header fields
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 21:42:40 -0000
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 5:26:08 PM EDT Dave Crocker wrote: > On 6/6/2020 2:23 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > If things like DMARC, SPF, and DKIM do nothing more than get abusers to > > use > > different domains than they would otherwise, I think that's a win. > > The issue here is DMARC, not SPF or DKIM, since DMARC is the only one of > the 3 that restricts the choice of domain name. > > With that in mind, I'll ask you why you think the kind of change you > cite is a win. 1. I think the domain displayed to the end user matters. In my sample size of 1, it matters to me. I know I'm not the average user, but independent of the question of how many users it matters to, there are some. 2. When abusers use different domains to send mail, it adds more information for filters to work on, so even if this is all about filtering, that works better too. Scott K
- [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with RFC 5… Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Stan Kalisch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Stan Kalisch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Stan Kalisch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Stan Kalisch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Stan Kalisch
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC alignment conflicts with R… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Дилян Палаузов
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] About user notification in the M… Stan Kalisch