Re: [dmarc-ietf] draft-crocker-dmarc-author-00 ?

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 11 August 2020 03:47 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E75E03A094F for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=qiBo+wr7; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=Q4N9ulMF
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDpscvdySuGh for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B3523A0943 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 71865 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2020 03:47:41 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=118b7.5f3214dd.k2008; bh=Yd6zFPxGrJt6r9TsSS5ZEuh8/E3dUq3+7B3G7uFlQlk=; b=qiBo+wr7oRBaRFS863VpH4yTpYQawEMgE/ZzTm6WwGwsHolQC4OVH9k7lJ0tr44Kyx2aB0dRQTiky/DSdjZOO8YzakcxpxombWTw8DYKhPPWQuxR5AW1QsLgolRkxJNAs9kV55kpPZIKis/HGaN3Yz5G1ECe7xSM6f24xueapHzSmRyxbhDS9eYA7aFIqj/bUxxCQazaFiYd5llsuTuRlzqqj29OTsjZLsaIQHWQNoFjHWAQx0zuOZvoXAGqDKsfD3MAkpPord0V96ztAgwccA/xzx38XQ15gkaQanMKFhXWQsYUsnyHOMq/PF89Sfu8TehI7cahhHEr1yhgrX1+xQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=118b7.5f3214dd.k2008; bh=Yd6zFPxGrJt6r9TsSS5ZEuh8/E3dUq3+7B3G7uFlQlk=; b=Q4N9ulMF+tUkarHA2KWKP48pAqPpDkuLxTtKp9fTBm2NdkyxW6xkaV+8+ZChZqf8zurv5NX91/edQyb03C9HQjzL1zLSUW7SWcXGrOrRUhy+LETTAcSZSP4Rd3vWq/Uvo8fvvNXD7XtcLiel+cTV55C0EVzrN35RFhFEGCoAeGJKr58pKhP8Y6u99Ub7Ma5CuM44y6liGRGeQ5iV9wpzGpb/5hFbMYG3+A8JXDZFl5/6kNx+6FupzqKgV3wySO+egXHnkIMV99yCtff8dMdvWLGme0qQyhgPAIkjBB1l5vhOeNylgvz8pB+acAQlbQT81A3/1Yxpm1rM4R27saBniw==
Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 11 Aug 2020 03:47:41 -0000
Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id BA1831E7FDBF; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:47:40 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:47:40 -0400
Message-Id: <20200811034740.BA1831E7FDBF@ary.local>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Cc: dcrocker@bbiw.net
In-Reply-To: <e42ceb0e-e52c-8dbe-4bf1-825f94670d80@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/_WQXgu1xTlnvcpSDLr9uzoch8GM>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] draft-crocker-dmarc-author-00 ?
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:47:46 -0000

In article <e42ceb0e-e52c-8dbe-4bf1-825f94670d80@dcrocker.net> you write:
>Folks,
>
>I was quite surprised -- at the level of astonished -- to see the 
>pushback on the Author header-field proposal, since it is such a simple 
>and straightforward mechanism.

The different bits in the message are simple enough.  

The problem is that it might as well be called Really-From, and then
when enough systems do mutant DMARC to cause the same problems with
Really-From that we have with From, the step after that is
Really-Really-From, so on ad nauseam. While that happens (or maybe
doesn't) we have no idea whether MUAs will display it or let you enter
it or automatically make it the same as From or maybe something else,
likely making it a disaster for interoperability.

I think the DMARC sender draft is a lot more promising.

R's,
John