[Eligibility-discuss] Social norm (was: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-knodel-nomcom-gender-representation-00.txt)

S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Wed, 27 December 2023 22:17 UTC

Return-Path: <sm@elandsys.com>
X-Original-To: eligibility-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: eligibility-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C74C157904 for <eligibility-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Dec 2023 14:17:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.704
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.704 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 867UIHQEKHzd for <eligibility-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Dec 2023 14:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C902BC151096 for <eligibility-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Dec 2023 14:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.117.0.196]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 3BRMGPeh005091 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Dec 2023 14:16:37 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1703715399; x=1703801799; i=@elandsys.com; bh=K8SI2C4yEfuZoGbvkfU86bJf0+0VRspUMO9Ucrziyk4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=Q0/Dt5uEGp0ygvJu9Ci1IExHbqHeSQYahWDmEZ1tJwDuOcpr9P7y/A4GsyTuLNcuN hJMe+hHrcg8L1FPqj7XHaY5UDLidlP/tOd2eXICT0eX27EWDupufrBLTji8B9QIrz8 TiRBO9tNG9v++pCbGiGjknaCsX2Tupf42Zo1X/R8=
Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20231227130847.0e4cdf08@elandnews.com>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2023 14:15:57 -0800
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, eligibility-discuss@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
In-Reply-To: <aacbf4fd-3fbf-4219-9f7b-79208be22b89@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <170047856358.34393.9049917006003776714@ietfa.amsl.com> <f871d358-8d9d-4714-99a8-6a51198a61c9@cdt.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20231227013902.091d82f8@elandnews.com> <aacbf4fd-3fbf-4219-9f7b-79208be22b89@cs.tcd.ie>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/eligibility-discuss/5-BxOjh1DdUa0m3m7Wk4cAcd6dE>
Subject: [Eligibility-discuss] Social norm (was: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-knodel-nomcom-gender-representation-00.txt)
X-BeenThere: eligibility-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF eligibility procedures <eligibility-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/eligibility-discuss>, <mailto:eligibility-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/eligibility-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:eligibility-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:eligibility-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/eligibility-discuss>, <mailto:eligibility-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2023 22:17:03 -0000

Hi Stephen,

[Cc trimmed]

At 05:45 AM 27-12-2023, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>My take away is that it supports the idea of the kind of small
>tweak Mallory has proposed, and secondly that for others who'd
>like to see progress on other axes of diversity, maybe arguing
>for the kind of social norm changes within the IETF that are
>discussed in the paper is the way to go, rather than try make
>process change proposals the place from which to start.

The social norm changed over the years.  There was a time when the 
list of nominees was confidential.  A nominee disclosed on a mailing 
list that he/she was listed as a nominee.  There was a process change 
some time later to publicize the list of nominees.  It was possible 
to change the social norm.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy