Re: [Eligibility-discuss] [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-knodel-nomcom-gender-representation-00.txt

[Michael StJohns <[e-mail]>]

Hi Brian -

Comments in line.

On 11/25/2023 5:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Mike,
> On 26-Nov-23 08:33, Michael StJohns wrote:
> ...
>
>>
>>>
>>> As a result of this, it is pretty much inevitable, particularly to 
>>> the extent that we measure IETF participation on the basis of who 
>>> shows up and who talks the most on mailing lists, that women are 
>>> going to be underrepresented in the IETF, and consequently on nomcom.
>>
>> Underrepresented based on whole population?  Based on equivalent 
>> populations in the tech world? 
>
> We discussed that quite recently, and yes, we do seem to be below IT 
> in general, but it's complicated. There was a long thread, but one of 
> my posts seems directly relevant to your question:
>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/admin-discuss/5FXHwNL1oRYuUoXS9f1eLZq_R90/ 
>

Yes - I saw the equivalent of that at 
https://www.luisazhou.com/blog/women-in-tech-statistics/ - but note that 
the 33% is all women in tech, not actually the women doing tech.  (e.g. 
includes admin, HR, etc).  The  estimate of actual active tech folk was 
around 27%.


>
>> Based on membership on the mailing lists? Based on WG chairs?
>
> Based on 13.5% female participation in the IETF as a whole, NomCom is 
> not doing badly on average, but Mallory is addressing a specific 
> issue: avoid years in which there are 0% women.
>
Right   Women in the population >> women in tech > technical women >> 
women participating in the IETF ∝ women selected to participate on the 
Nomcom.

To close this I'd like to know the women qualified for the nomcom, women 
volunteering for the nomcom, total number of attendees qualified for the 
nomcom.  It's easy enough to find the "number of volunteers for the nomcom"

If women are volunteering for the Nomcom in smaller proportions than the 
rest of the group, we ought to actually ask the reasons for that, and 
see if we can address the root cause.

>>
>> Based on whole population, pretty much every tech community  has 
>> women substantially under-represented.  And mostly not something the 
>> IETF can directly address.
>
> But we can help strategically by ensuring that women are never 
> disadvantaged in the IETF.

If we're going to go this way, let's do it not based on our anemic 
representation, but on a population target we really should be at - e.g. 
the 27% or so.

Basically, I doubt a single vote will matter year in or year out to get 
more women selected to IETF leadership.  If this is just about 
participation, then offer the single slot.  If this is about 
disadvantage, let's go big.


>
>    Brian
>
>