[Gendispatch] Large cluster [Re: I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 30 March 2021 22:06 UTC

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To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>, GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>, Eliot Lear <lear=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
References: <161701910454.13044.908232164554537032@ietfa.amsl.com> <55b4e061-f25d-8958-1e75-868bec0c735e@gmail.com> <D277EB6F-FDB1-4588-A77B-FC29B0FB782F@eggert.org> <963ED8F3-712F-4E8D-BF29-A3E7735E4641@mnot.net> <53AB2142-8BC2-43AC-86E7-EC9F1E72D9D3@cisco.com> <71B14C3D-AF8C-4C7F-9C14-03686F499E4D@eggert.org> <0B3C59C9-5057-4DC2-AF1E-CA3216436996@cisco.com> <10400F6C-C9E3-4136-A4FE-D97B83E6F67C@eggert.org> <9134c6cc-8f44-e4e7-c4aa-8a0dd271adf9@gmail.com> <CABcZeBPwW-fqRhsF0LHhJutZ++emRL816+05BgntZEA2Ga0Lsg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:06:22 +1300
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Subject: [Gendispatch] Large cluster [Re: I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt]
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Off topic, but just to clarify my intention:

On 31-Mar-21 09:20, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 1:13 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
...
>     > We can always revise it again, when there is consensus on more fundamental changes.
> 
>     Agreed, and that needs a much deeper analysis. And IMNSHO there are many much more important process issues to resolve than the occasional unruly threads on ietf@. Just to pick one at random, what can we do to prevent something like Cluster 238 ever happening again?
> 
> 
> This is a bit hard to answer without having a clearer statement
> of what went wrong with C238.

There's a partial analysis at https://www.ietf.org/blog/webrtc-pandemic/

> 
> I could imagine several objections here:
> 
> - We shouldn't have projects which require changes to large
>   chunks of the protocol suite.
> 
> - We shouldn't have to publish all the documents in those
>   projects simultaneously.
> 
> - It's hard for the RPC to manage the simultaneous publication
>   of all those documents.
> 
> - Something else?
> 
> It seems like each of these might have different solutions.

Indeed, and some of them are related to the old question of how to
dynamically document complex standards with components at different
maturity levels. My real question is: are we going to duck the hard
questions about the IETF standards process?

    Brian