Re: [Gendispatch] Meetings summary

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

On 17-Oct-20 02:38, Eliot Lear wrote:
> Bron,
> 
> 
>> On 16 Oct 2020, at 15:02, Bron Gondwana <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>> Oh I'm glad I missed this the other day in my "jetlag" induced stupor (I've been attending CalConnect virtual conference from 2-6am Melbourne time this week), so I didn't get dragged in at the time.
>>
>> I was very disappointed that the key question that I think needs to be answered by the community, and particular by those who favour draft-knodel, didn't have time for proper discussion at the last gendispatch meeting.
>>
>> *Does the IETF have confess to some "sins"?*
> 
> With regard to language, it seems good to recognize that there are phrases that we should avoid.  But I don’t know if that is the same as a confession, or that we have to beat our backs on one to address language.
> 
>>
>> I believe this is the core issue underlying much of the disagreement.  I feel that there's not consensus on whether we have something to apologise for.
>>
>> There's also a sub issue hidden under that, which is this question:
>>
>> *Is the IETF systemically racist?*
> 
> 
> Is that the effort or is the effort to correct language?  The above question seems to me a great opportunity to rathole forever.

That's the point. We can knock off the issue of words that are better avoided quite quickly. Tackling all the isms (not just racism) is a much harder issue, and IMNSHO is one that the IETF *cannot* tackle on its own, because we don't control the demographics of the people who participate in the IETF. I take it as a given that once people participate in the IETF, our rules and guielines disallow any form of discrimination, so it's hard to see how writing an RFC can help much anyway.

In fact there is already an RFC that makes things pretty clear:

>    Open process - any interested person can participate in the work,
>    know what is being decided, and make his or her voice heard on the
>    issue.
...
>    The Internet is a global phenomenon.  The people interested in its
>    evolution are from every culture under the sun and from all walks of
>    life.  The IETF puts its emphasis on technical competence, rough
>    consensus and individual participation, and needs to be open to
>    competent input from any source.

[RFC3935, BCP95]

Yes, of course, there may be prejudiced people among our participants, and there is certainly unconscious bias among our participants. We should probably have a plan for dealing with this, beyond the anti-harassment policy and ombudsteam, but I don't think that plan necessarily includes an RFC.

Regards
   Brian