Re: [Gendispatch] Meetings summary

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Fri, 16 October 2020 15:43 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A993A0FAC for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.111
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wH0f4QimEaeD for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 434F73A0FA7 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xse5.mail2web.com ([66.113.196.5] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx170.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1kTRtH-000NtE-3R for gendispatch@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 17:43:37 +0200
Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CCVmh4FdWz1tpk for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.5.2.18] (helo=xmail08.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1kTRtE-0008El-Fa for gendispatch@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:32 -0700
Received: (qmail 23643 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2020 15:50:47 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.107]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.43.139]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail08.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; 16 Oct 2020 15:50:47 -0000
To: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
References: <B1075198-D4F5-498B-B16B-3081A9B07DDD@episteme.net> <76d19c8b-68d3-465f-b869-c18a9db7504f@dogfood.fastmail.com>
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXtavGxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA1ou9A5MHTP9N3jfsWzlDZ+jPnQkusmc7sfLmWVz1Rmu0 J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEw3G4 Nwi4QEpAAXUUELAmqKBYtJQFAl7WrxsCGwMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgEC F4AACgkQELAmqKBYtJQbMwD/ebj/qnSbthC/5kD5DxZ/Ip0CGJw5QBz/+fJp3R8iAlsBAMjK r2tmyWyJz0CUkVG24WaR5EAJDvgwDv8h22U6QVkAuDgEXtavGxIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQJoM 6MUAIqpoqdCIiACiEynZf7nlJg2Eu0pXIhbUGONdAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEw3G4Nwi4QEpA AXUUELAmqKBYtJQFAl7WrxsCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQELAmqKBYtJRm2wD7BzeK5gEXSmBcBf0j BYdSaJcXNzx4yPLbP4GnUMAyl2cBAJzcsR4RkwO4dCRqM9CHpVJCwHtbUDJaa55//E0kp+gH
Message-ID: <c28538cc-1003-3c47-7956-3863bf131580@huitema.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:43:33 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <76d19c8b-68d3-465f-b869-c18a9db7504f@dogfood.fastmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 66.113.196.5
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.196.5/32
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.196.5/32@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.12)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0ZXzIHSbE2lF8iY6Od2jmSypSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVi5ESHZsgjrsl HCsANYB+RETNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDtLSXJfCfZOnWpXE1/I0nj9Xt FNSzkMWnDricnMrpFJqDMNm5TuDgTWnV8wEBvVl2QVFPFt+4EqMnp4CTDhVg0lKlzDUUdXZXKiJE 9FAeBYpBbCpe79Kozx0nomzoHNuEctpg1HI4dz8j28/Gmqa7mO42Vki7412dpbhrD2d47zbC3VvU djSCswikK/licfX+oIF6uBSWByrPG2Vxuo/vVPllrFEbCkMryfcYCsgMUJObfBQoU3roWy2GH1DY sAiH3gousbgNfxi2R3uFLvZP/HBXvrLBlKCVRjjdPbjQ4HnBNho1Lszw5OO01yYoll8q2UgzFF+j HNSbIoW1Q++Wvj3dKxLhoxcmaInYbR5vlqFg3eKzPG9E5MikC2dVXWcpK172i/E5sOgbaCtBiSIx 1XwCY8vmv+JqOVJamBHfOGVwjn7Xut/lXagsodd5qqODTFiwcpU4fyz75jxpU98RPGiH1Wgh6RAe nBR+licROGb39x3Pp0qQsqDkbqmcZOiQQeTuedWGKCkiycacAVsopusgsGdpZGw1R8SVyG2ctS4r cuyeNztZhTczEttfN8GcdQdstwoCBzan0lY1cJm4XnuXCC1A5Cukky0WFo38JXT3Y80OmAux3oN1 3+ztUzneZ9/v8sMcz3XFgbe5z9pgL07JPy9twDyaj6un7qWOkNfEqrwjxkNMaV67wJBJN70rd3nP H+BvbQJz74K5CedYK2QWWVrR3JV1wNwZBbrvJPnhRlxnmWI1XzgsXIEdLsEB9R/2gMGq0KWAzmMf +ibVDpdplkxcBm4XM6d7s4Bx3w1WbaUe4g0kgaInvdEp64qlVpe//bVkg87Xe61e30HXuSERbInM iTBIUBbQ/Dy6Ip4D1rnEhdYtY/lMQX5s39oH5ijcGdSK77ViXbmzTYWgl82XucjoLWQ7++7jcUS/ T5w=
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/mdKc11kqqaKjQxwOPKl6TXILG5M>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Meetings summary
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:43:41 -0000

On 10/16/2020 6:02 AM, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> Systemic racism is a somewhat poorly defined and amorphous term which
> is at the same time both unfalsifiable and yet gets conflated across
> to broader racism which is a very strong accusation of awfulness


You may want to walk that back. You have done a good job of producing a
document that sticks to practical issues and avoids unnecessary
controversy, but here you are somewhat gratuitously digging into the
people using the "systemic racism" language. Believe it or not, but
there are definitely issues, at least in the USA, that contribute to
"keeping down" a fraction of the population. There is a fair amount of
good research about this, for example the documentation of the effects
of "redlining" in "The Color of Law" by Richard Bronstein. Downplaying
all that as "unfalsifiable" or "an accusation of awfulness" is not going
to help bring IETF consensus.

Your summary would be much better if you just removed that paragraph
altogether, or replaced it with something much more neutral.

-- Christian Huitema